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Thursday, October 22, 2009

WOULD AFRICA BE A BETTER PLACE IF THE EUROPEANS HAD NOT COLONIZED US??


Yesterday, I had this question up on my facebook status and more people felt that Africa would have been a better place if the Europeans never colonized it. Personally, I disagreed with the majority and this is why.

1. Before the Europeans came, we did not know Jesus, we did not know about christianity, and we were definitely headed to hell. So we should thank God for the white man bringing the bible to us. (Lol all the christians better be happy for this first statement o).

2. We would definitely still be killing twins, Sugarking and his brother would be dead by now. Europeans came and stopped that practice.

3. We would definitely still be living in huts, we would be killing so-called "ogbanje babies". Such ignorance.

4. Women would still be second class citizens, infact any woman right now that supports the other side and claims that Africa was better off without the Europeans should bear in mind that women in those times where meant to be seen and not heard.

5.We would definitely not have invented any planes by ourselves, neither would we have invented internet, talk less of invent BLOGGER!!..

6. Last but not least, we would still be chilling in our various villages. There would be no nigeria, there would be no independence parties, and you know for certain that there would be no good roads, electricity or even good drinking water.

41 comments:

EDJ said...

First again!!

Lol, you already know where I come down on this whole issue. I support everything you wrote 100%. I saw the pointless arguments being made on your status. Majority from people living in abroad.
If Naija is so awesome then why the f*ck aren't they back there?

EDJ said...

Damn I hate typos.

I meant to say "living abroad".

Azazel said...

Exactly o, that's what I was saying EDj..
Somebody was saying that she envies the fulanis and their primitive ways..
am like, if u envy the fulanis so much, why don't u go and join them.. what are u doing abroad.

Nice Anon said...

Yes oh! We would have been walking around with leaf covering our private parts.Pun intended! LOL

Azazel said...

Hahahahhahaah Nice Anon..
U will not killeth me. hahahahahhaaahhahaha well ur right. Am not even going to deny that.

Tay-mee said...

Lol you people on this blog kill me I swear!! Thank God we don't have to chill in our village sha..the thought of it..*shivers*

~B~ said...

tru, I agree with this to some extent..

but however, u fget that change is a constant, no matter what part of the world. We would've evolved from our primitive ways, albeit slowly, but eventually we would've gotten to some stage of 'enlightenment'.

After all, the killing of female infants was rampant in Saudi Arabia a long tym ago, and yet with no one goin t 'colonize them' they realized the error of their ways...and u also have to wonder how the british themselves reached 'civilization' standards befor they started their waka-waka..

~B~ said...

p.s - has Controversy stopped blogging entirely?? or jst here?

burramint said...

so i wrote a loooooooooong comment n somehow my internet decided to mess up! anyways i shall just call you and tell u! lol! and B that was one of my points! i used the witch hunts as an example! good to see people thinking in all directions!

Enoch said...

Devil's advocate.

Omo, I stand with the 8-16million dead to say that Africa is not better off today.

Colonialism was a consequence of thirst for African resources including slaves. It also led to civil wars. Some conservative estimates put the slave trade cost at 8-16million in African lives. Add to that the body count from civil wars. I am not convinced that price in blood was a good bargain for the so called "quality of life" Africans have now.

Even at our Ogbanje and twin killing best(my apologies Sugarking), we can't even come close to out-genocide the white man.

Question: Imagine you are a pre-colonial bobo and a supremely wise Caucasian gives you two options.
a) colonialism paid for in millions of African lives with the end result being Africa as it is today
b) Just enjoy your life as it is.

Before you answer let me remind you that Solomon put it best in Ecclesiastes 1:2-3 when he said “Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?"

With 46.9years (which btw is the current mean life expectancy for the average soul in Nigeria) to live on this earth and then cease to exist, what is the difference if you get your satisfaction in life from jetting around in a private jet running a Fortune 100 company as opposed to being the best palm wine tapper in your village if you don't know any better? If i knew no better why wouldn't I enjoy my crude African life? After all, in a millennium from now, our current so called "advanced societies" would be frowned upon as the epitome of suffering. That ought to put the apparent convenience of civilized culture in its true relativistic perspective.

Happiness is not measured by how it is gotten. It's fundamental like that.

Abeg, village life is better than no life. If your ancestors were part of the dead from slavery or civil war, would you think you are better off today? ooops my bad, you wouldn't even exist.

It might have taken us longer to invent TCP/IP or genetically modified ethanol producing bacteria but no deaths to fill up the pockets of white dudes.

I stand with the 8-16million dead to say that Africa is not better off today.

burramint said...

*standing ovation for Enoch*
azazel another thing i forgot to touch on in our convo!

Gentian Sage said...

I definitely can agree with the points made in this post, but I'ma have to say (even though, cuzzo, I appreciated the shoutout to Christians in the first line :D ) that I agree with Enoch's points as the Devil's advocate. Just as Europeans "evolved" and came up with their own technology, etc., there is NOTHING that says that Africans wouldn't or couldn't have done the same!! We would have evolved in our own time, happy, as Enoch said, because we wouldn't be comparing ourselves to other people. And whose to say that the white men would have "evolved" as quickly as they did, if they hadn't harnessed the work power of so many blacks and other colored people? Who knows? Maybe if colonization or slavery had never been initiated, some country in Africa would have arisen (I'd like to think the Igbos in some way LOL!!) as the superpower of the world. (sigh)... if only, if only...

~B~ said...

secondin burramint

*standing ovation*

I totally imagined someone givin dt speech at some convention..

hope u dnt mind Enoch, I gave u glasses in my hed, teheehee

Azazel said...

@ Taymee
Lol forreal hun.

@ B
U know the biz I agree with the points u said..
@ Burramint.
I already told u over the fone that i definitely agree with the last point you made to me

@ Enoch
bros lol i have recanted my position, u make a very strong argument. I agree with u.

@ Gentian Sage
Hmm ehen so u accepted the chrsitianity part, but then u sortsa did not accept it? U tryin to have ur cake and eat it ehn?

Nice Anon said...

White pipo don do us plenty things o! Make we go fight! Na who get ogu na nma make we go tear the house down:!

I cant imagine still going to "iyi" sha to fetch water as per all the mountain-ous ugwu wey dem kon get. E no easy at all o! By the time you come back your neck go wan break with that 20 liter jerry can abi na iron bucket we go dey us then abi?

Azazel said...

Nice Anon
Lol ehen please o, that is the point that i am strivin to make.. I like my luxury o.

Enoch said...

@Nice anon abi cinnamon spice

I dey your back. I carry cutlass. We will take on the DoD with our farm tools. lol

I can imagine going to 'iyi' with pleasure o! Any small horseplay with a chic there would just turn into a wet T-shirt competition. Chei!

@Azazel
Oboy we all like out luxuries o.

But the point I tried to make is that technology would deliver a much more luxurious lifestyle in a 1000 years and the only reason you tolerate your current "luxury" is because you don't have the knowledge from the 1000 yr future.

Its the same with Africa. at precolonial times. To us it looks like suffering going to 'iyi' to fetch water but to them they new no better and thought it was luxury.

@~B~
I mistakenly sprayed some insecticide in my eyes when I was a kid. I credit that experience with my 20/20 vision(Like spider senses) and also for the fact that I'm the only one in my family without glasses. Although, I've always desperately wanted glasses. :( :)

@Burramint
Glad you stand with us. lol.

Azazel said...

Ah i seriously doubt that they do enjoyed walkin all those miles to river o.
Lol i mean that was all they knew, but do u know how much neck and back pain they had? Lol enoch see lmao all this "hut living" does not work for me o. I like my AC and fan.. Two very important inventions lmao

Enoch said...

Azazel from 3009AD to Azazel 2009AD

I serious doubt you enjoyed driving in this contraption you call cars. See how bumpy the rides are. And you have to control it yourself. It must really hurt your hands and wrists. Besides it kills in outrageous numbers daily.

I totally love my artificial intelligence controlled flying transporter. It flies itself and gets me across continents in seconds. I can't imagine anyone would want to live differently and risk his life in an automobile, ridiculous!

------
lol. Oboy, its difficult to imagine it o, but I tell you luxury is based entirely on what you know.

EDJ said...

@Enoch

"what is the difference if you get your satisfaction in life from jetting around in a private jet running a Fortune 100 company as opposed to being the best palm wine tapper in your village if you don't know any better?"

Unfortunately we DO know better. I can't keep holding up slavery as the reason why many African countries are still so backwards (not all). In a place like Nigeria, we can't use slavery as an excuse for the bullsh*t going on there. Slavery is an explanation for why African Americans do some of the stuff they do. What has that got to do with AFRICA? Yes they killed lots of people, and took them away. But then they left us alone (mostly).

Some1 has to take responsibility for the last 60+ years on that continent. Y'all can't keep blaming white people.

Enoch said...

@EDJ

It was a simple question. Do you think Africa is better off today. My simple answer is no!

I am not blaming anybody for Africa being screwed up.

If colonialism did not cost so much in lives I would stand with you.

We are lucky to be alive today and have breath in our lungs to say Africa is better off.

16million dead.

I can't ignore that number. I stand with them.

So if we had model leadership in Africa over the years and the continent looks like North America right now, you'll think 16 million lives was a good price to pay?

16million?

And no. We did not know better before the oyibos came and we were probably as happy if not happier without their tech.

16million.

SOLOMONSYDELLE said...

hahaha.

I loved this post! even though this was funny it presented some very interesting points.


NIGERIAN CURIOSITY
IT WAS SO MUCH EASIER WHEN I ONLY HAD ONE...

ttlolla said...

enoch: I give u a standing ovation ......

Am not too crazy bout the post but I like the question posed


First of all, we would still have gone to heaven without the oyinbo's bringing christianity cos God does not judge you based on what you don't know. There was knowledge of right and wrong , which is what God would have judged them by, cos they dint know jesus nor could they read the bible .


I do not believe africa would have been better than it is right now without the europeans. We would have evolved but definitely not as developed as we are now......though that development came at a very costly price

EDJ said...

@ttlola
Must we bring God into this? Enoch I blame you if this turns into yet another religious conversation. E don do abeg!!

@Enoch
I am not sure that 16million number is correct. Though I am not arguing with the fact that MANY people died. If the Europeans had not colonized us then we would have continued living in blissfull ignorance--FOR A WHILE.
If the world continued the way it did (minus colonialism) we would have all eventually been exposed to the Western world and I guarantee you many of us would have been lured away by the "glamour" of the west.

I know you are not blaming the West for stuff in Africa. But you are one of the few. Everytime I talk to one of these "iRep Africa" idiots, they lay every blame at the feet of "the man". It is so annoying.

Have you ever had that conversation where Nigerians complain about akatas for not picking themselves up and "doing something" with all their opportunities. Then in the next breath the SAME Nigerian will blame the Europeans for ruining Africa. Such madness.

Enoch said...

@EDJ
"Enoch I blame you if this turns into yet another religious conversation." I did not say anything about religion o! But give me that cross & I will gladly carry it. lol.

The 16 million estimate is given to us by the perpetrators, the white man. If I distrust it, I would expect it to be much larger.

And yes, if we were not colonized, we would have eventually discovered the west and perhaps fled. In my judgment, I consider that scenario of Africa worthy of the label "Better off without colonialism". Anything that saved those millions of lives is better.

Let me see if I can get you steaming red hot...

As per the issue of blaming the white man for Africa's woes. I'm not sure you've heard the best argument for that o.

Have you read "confessions of an economic hitman" by John Perkins? If presented with the idea that the the oyibo man enticed African leaders to take on so much debt and enact draconian policies against their better judgment with the intent to enslave the continent would you blame the African leader? I'm guessing you would. Would you still blame him if the enticement was accompanied with credible threats to his person and his country?

Would you say the blame for the current state of Africa is to be laid at the feet of Africans if you learn that there was an elaborate plan to enslave with debt, defund social services and education to keep the price of resources dead cheap and the population incapable of detecting the shenanigans? Some might argue that the long term strategic consequence is the equivalent of an economic mushroom cloud and our current state is a huge success.

Slavery had a triple digit billion dollar cash flow. Do you expect that income stream to cease and the beneficiaries would just go to bed?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these westerners with their clandestine intelligence agencies and superior know how could have easily pulled off a colossal sleight of hand in Africa such that we blame ourselves for our stagnation when indeed they are to blame.

I don't waste my time blaming the white man for the state of Africa but I know this world is a jungle. If a tiger wants to eat a deer, it can do it and leave the deer's siblings blaming themselves.

Lady X said...

Yup they helped us move forward alright but are you also saying that you would like them to come back and colonise us?

Cuz even though Naija has issues I sure as hell don't wanna be colonized by anybody.

Azazel said...

@ Enoch
Hmm @ luxury is based entirely on what you know..
That is very true.

@ Solomon
Lol thanks bro.

@ EDJ
I've had such a conversation where nigerians will point fingers @ akatas but not want to talk about our own failure in our own nations. Such madness

@ Enoch
Baba lol i like all ur points, but again if these leaders where being threatened by the West. Why did they not speak up? I agree with EDJ, it is time we take responsiblity for the last 60 years.


@ Ttolla
See this is the 4th time u and I agree on something. This is becoming a trend o.

Enoch said...

@Azazel

Speak up to who? Civilians? Are you serious? Using my earlier tiger analogy. The tiger threatens to eat the deer and the deer goes to "speak up" to its fellow deers.

The important point I want to make is that if they wanted to SAP us dry and get away with it, they could.
Look at what they did to Salvador Allende of Chile in 1973 and Mohammed Mosaddeq of Iran in 1953.

How do we know that people like Murtala Mohammed, Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Ahmadu Bello didn't have the bright idea to "speak up" and paid with their lives?

I can't remember if it was Niccolo Machiavelli that said "when no precedent exists, a Striking example is necessary." They might have served as a striking example subsequent leaders would take heed from.

ttlolla said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ttlolla said...

@ EDJ

did you read this post?

dint you see, the first reason the author was thankful for the europeans coming to africa was cos they brought christianity and the bible

should i just assume you dont read posts and you just jump to the comment link before you actually read

EDJ said...

@ttlola

I chose to ignore reason #1 because I am kinda tired of the religious arguments. Shall I now assume that YOU chose to focus on reason #1 as opposed to the other FIVE reasons because you love religious arguments?

PS: I am pretty sure the person who wrote this post is simply being patronizing to the Christianity-lovers and doesn't actually believe that statement. Too bad you can't tell when some1 is being sarcastic.

EDJ said...

@Enoch

"Slavery had a triple digit billion dollar cash flow"
You have to back up statements like this with fact abeg.

Also, all these conspiracy theories still fall under the umbrella of passing blame.

Oh, the white man deliberately set out to make us hate each other.

The white man forced the
politicians to steal from their governments and run away with the money.

The white man forced Africans to sell relatives and family members to them during the slave trade.

The white man is the reason why African countries with natural resources can't manage their own economies and be succesful.

The white man is the cause of the genocide in Darfur and every single civil war that has happened in Afric in the last millenia.

The white man is the reason why that flood happened in that village that day and killed that man.

All bullsh*t. I am not saying there was no fallout from colonialism. There was. But imagine if the Jews started blaming Nazis from 1940 for making Bernie Madoff do what he did in 2009!

We have to face the facts. We are responsible for ourselves. Stop passing blame!

Enoch said...

@EDJ

Don't get it twisted I'm playing devil's advocate.

I don't recall where I saw a $12trillion dollar estimate for profits of American slave labor. Probably unadjusted for inflation. I'm not your encyclopedia. You can look for yourself.

But make I ask you.

Do you think western powers have the resources and skillset to pull off the "conspiracies" I mentioned in Africa without our knowledge?

I'm just asking if you think they have the capabilities that's all.

If like me you think they do, then you do realize that the implication is that you expect them to be moral and have intentions sympathetic to us and ignore easy money. An expectation they have a clear record of falling very short of.

I expect you know about the CIA sponsored coups in Iran in '53 and Chile in '73.

In the case of Iran you do know it was all because of ridiculous contractual demands for the price of crude.

Please answer me this. Do you think Iranians today are responsible for the state of their economy?

Enoch said...

It is documented fact that the white man sponsored the overthrow of a democratically elected govt in Iran in 53 and installed a puppet govt, trained its death squads that killed people in the 100,000s and got its way with Iran's crude for over two decades and a half.

If I were the Iranian prime minister in 53, like many African folks I know, I would not have resisted their demands for cheap crude and I would have mortgaged my country, sharp sharp.

Azazel said...

Enoch
I honestly get ur point bro, and I know for a fact that the Western leaders have butted their heads into african affairs..
Look what they did with Congo's former president, they assassinated him. But not every wrong thing that has happened on that continent can be attributed to the white man. Abacha stole 3billion dollars and he put it in swiss banks, no white man helped him do that..
Our leaders have been sucking us dry, and they've all been corrupt.
@ least when the british where there, we had good roads, we had electricity, things where still good compared to nawadays.. No be so?

Enoch said...

@Azazel (btw which one? The fallen angel from Abrahamic doctrine that taught us humans a lot or the marvel character?)

Don't mind me. I was just trying to give EDJ about half a dozen degree centigrade rise in temperature.

I loved pushing buttons as a kid. Seems like I still do. I just swap my fingers for ideas these days.

EDJ said...

Lol Enoch I KNOW you are playing Devil's advocate. I am responding for all the lurkers out there who are reading this and are nodding their heads at your statement.

Azazel said...

Lol @ EDJ
lmao @ all the lurkers nodding @ enoch's statement.

Nice Anon said...

I have always wondered " How did all of you get together to open a blog?" are you all friends or what?

Azazel said...

Lol miss anon..
Curiosity killed the cat o..
don't worry we shall publish the history of how this blog came to be sometime..
It will be up soon sha.

ttlolla said...

@edj

the fact you chose to ignore it does that mean i should

or do you want to start censoring other peopele's comments just because you are tired of a certain trend



if you have a problem with anything religious on this blog, take it up with the author