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Sunday, October 11, 2009

IS SLAVERY A SIN???

                                      


So I was just going to talk only about Slavery but I decided to touch on the subject of "Hair". Please if I see one more stupid ass blog talking about Hair I am going to shoot somebody. For the love of God, ladies please I take God beg you, NOBODY gives a shit about your hair, it doesn't matter if your as bald as your yansh or you rock weaves. NOBODY gives a shit, I don't get why this "Natural Hair vs Weave" thing is a topic. Honestly, don't you all have better shit to discuss than "Hair".I am starting to think that there are really some "insecurity" issues lying dormant behind all this "Hair" topic. I know myne whitman agrees with me lol, please hun help me explain to this females that it's just "HAIR". (Now back to my main topic).

Honestly, my pipo I am depressed o. Not severely depressed but I am weary, very very weary. I just got to thinking where did all that innocence we had as children go? When do we lose that innocence? And why is it that we do not fight more to keep that innocence. Before I go on, I need to address this issue. This blog is not set up to try to convert anybody away from their religion, I do not believe that anything I write in this blog can make anybody suddenly decide to stop being a christian/muslim etc. Rather the purpose of this blog is to honestly get everybody to :
1. Question with boldness.

2. Hold onto the truth, even if you don't like it, because it IS the truth.
3. Speak without fear
From time to time, I might come off sounding like a "know-it-all" but I am here to say that "Controversy" does not know it all. I simply try to "think" for myself and "ask questions" no matter how difficult the questions may be. I shall ask them.
What happened to our innocence? When I was a kid, I knew what was right and what was wrong innately. The innocence of our childhood made us able to detect evil from a mile away.But as I grew up, I started to justify some certain evils and gradually but slowly I started to compromise on evil and before I knew it my innocence was stripped from me.
The other day, while having a religious arguments with my friends both of them female. One akata, and the other Nigerian I asked two of them whether "slavery was a sin". The akata replied yes slavery was a sin, nigerian girl replied "no, that it was not a sin".The Nigerian Girl replied that slavery was wrong but it was not a sin. The akata babe was "shocked" that the Nigerian Girl could not see that "slavery" was a sin. The Nigerian babe did not want to admit that slavery was a sin because she knew I would then point to the fact that the bible approved of slavery. Honestly, at the end of the day I got the naija babe to admit that slavery in any shape or form is indeed a sin and just because the bible does not call it a sin does not mean that it is not a sin.

As a child if they had asked any one of us. "Is slavery a sin"? We would have answered with a unanimous "YES". I was shocked that in this day and age, I could ask somebody whether "Slavery was a sin" and the person would reply that it was wrong but not a sin. The other day my friend Reine said the same thing that slavery was not a sin. She justified it by stating that since the bible did not regard it as a sin, then it could not possibly be a sin. Honestly, am still boiling hot from that her statement, and am telling you it's people like Reine who would not have had a problem with casting "blacks as Three Fifths" when the U.S Constitution was written. So because a book that was written 2000 years ago did not state that "slavery is a sin" that means it is now ok to enslave people? That would mean that all those bastard plantation owners that treated blacks like shit are probably "chilling" in heaven sipping tequila? I mean, seeing as them enslaving people is not a sin, how can they possibly be in hell?

In conclusion, this is what I am trying to say. Every single one of us has a basic sense of what is right, wrong, evil, good, etc. Now slavery as a whole is a SIN because it is evil. Trying to justify it because a book  that claims to be the word of God, approves of it is nothing short of OUTRIGHT STUPIDITY.

92 comments:

EDJ said...

Haha First!!

On a serious note. What is slavery?

Slavery is being under the control of another person and performing forced labor for the person with little or no pay.

Just look at that statement. Is it a sin to force someone to work for you? Or a sin to not pay someone? Or is it a sin to have someone work under you?

I'm not sure if slavery was a sin. It was definitely WRONG. However, the murdering, abuse, and other kinds of terrible treatment are what might make it a sin.

I am not FOR slavery, before anyone says anything.

Controversy said...

Lol Kene
Somebody comes to your house, or comes to your country or comes to your village and "enslaves" you and practically holds you captive for no other reason simply because he has "power" over you.
Is that not a sin?
Lmao @ is it a sin to have someone work under u.. U are crazy for that one. Please tell me, right now u have a boss right. Are u his slave? U can quit whenever u want to can't you? Please stop tryin to be intellectually dishonest.

Controversy said...

Btw this is the definition of slavery EDJ
1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.
2.
a. The practice of owning slaves.
b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.
3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
4. A condition of hard work and subjection

ttlolla said...

I know no human wisdom or understanding can stand God; but because the bible did not say so, does that make it right?

A lot of christians are myopic , stingy with the truth and frankly stupid sometimes

One of my pastors in nigeria tried to justify employing underaged children by siting s,one in the bible. I called himout and blasted him .

So the bible wriitten in looney bc okays slavery, you live in 2009!
its wrong nd if God does not consider the harm done to africans then am sorry this is a joke

Enoch said...

@Controversy
The larger issue here is what I find really disgusting about religion. The tendency to suspend reason and cast everything in the mold of the bible even against your obvious better judgment.

As per the hair issue. Its a free country oh. If someone wants to write a romance novel about the hair in his/her cochlea, the first amendment affords them that right. Yes I know its ridiculous but anything less would be borderline Orwellian/fascist.

The only option left is to use the same right in response...

5 stars for this post man. 5 stars.


@EDJ
Can you tell me your definition of WRONG? What does it mean to EDJ for something to be wrong? And if you may, what does it mean for something to be a sin?

Bubbles said...

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HAHAHA
OMG
THE HAIR THING
LOOL.!!
whew
ok off to continue reading.!!
LOOOL

Enoch said...

@ttlolla
Can you tell me your definition of WRONG? What does it mean to you for something to be wrong? And what does it mean for something to be a sin?

nonny said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nonny said...

@EDJ
to sin means to miss the mark of God's holy standard of righteousness.I have noticed a lot of people going on about how things are wrong but not a sin. are you kidding me? if its wrong, God doesn't like it, if God doesn't like it, its a sin.


People people, before we go off on a one man mission to defend Christianity, lets get our facts straight at least

Controversy said...

@ ttolla
Wait wait wait are u agreein with me???? *does the victory dance*..
U agreed with me finally..
Chai God is really good..
Thank u @ Enoch.
I am waitin for EDJ's response..

@ Bubbles..
U want to start wahala for me sha lol

@ Nonny
Thank u hun..
Please help me ask them how something can be wrong and yet not be a sin? Like wth?

ttlolla said...

@enoch
According to my not -so developed brain
something is wrong when is goes against against the standards of good and evil, of course that is relative bt its fair to say there is a general agreement that slavery is wrong.

pride is wrong and God detests a haughty spirit bt did he say it was a sin? No, so does it mean you you should carry on behaving like God created you when he was sipping wine, of course not!

@controversy. Yes I am agreeing with you, I am agreeing with the truth, christians skirt around the truth too much.... If slavery is not a sin, then I don't know what is

EDJ said...

Wrong is something that is not right!! "Wrong" varies from society to society from time period to time period.

Sin is something that is not right in a religious context or is against God's will (depending on your religion) It may vary from religion to religion, but it stays the same no matter how much time passes.
Obviously there is a lot of overlap between the two, especially for religious people.

"Somebody comes to your house, or comes to your country or comes to your village and "enslaves" you and practically holds you captive for no other reason simply because he has "power" over you."

IS IT a sin? Somebody is going to have power over someone else at some point. Unless there is a part of the bible that spells out issues such as payment of workers, and worker's rights, then I'm not sure slavery is a sin.

I'll repeat. It is wrong to force someone to do something for you for little or no pay. But is that a sin?

It is a sin to murder, rape, etc a group of people. That happened under slavery, no doubt. However, the act of taking those Africans to another country and making them work for nothing...is that a sin? If the slave-masters had miraculously avoided all the murder, etc and had simply transported those people to their countries with no harm whatsoever but had still forced them to work for no pay, would it be as big a question?

There's other stuff like this. For instance: masturbation (and I'm sorry for dragging it there). It's supposed to be a sin to masturbate, and a while ago it would have been "wrong". But, now it is apparently ok...and still a "sin"--if you follow your Christianity of course.

EDJ said...

Slavery was ok back then but is wrong now.
However, murder has always been a sin. Rape has always been a sin. Stealing has always been a sin.

My whole idea is that the view of sin is constant. The idea of wrong is not.

Since "the view of slavery" is not constant...

nonny said...

@ttlola
i think pride is one of the seven deadly sins no?

Lady X said...

EDJ:
Please what does this little paragraph of yours mean "Just look at that statement. Is it a sin to force someone to work for you? Or a sin to not pay someone? Or is it a sin to have someone work under you?"
All you have done is to merely describe a bad employer at best. Slavery is much more that that. Slavery is when someone owns someone and makes them do anything they want. And I mean anything. Understand that tiny basic bit of explanation first.

Now I'm trying to understand how you can say Slavery is not a sin and that "...the murdering, abuse, and other kinds of terrible treatment are what might make it a sin."

Are you fucking serious? Now I don't usually pay attention to peoples comments and believe me some people have said the dumbest things on this blog but your comment was just so very dense. I hope someone could enslave you for just a week and you can come back and tell me again whether slavery is a sin. Harsh but true. Please think before you talk.

Lady X said...

And who told you it was ok back then? Did the past slaves phone you from the grave to tell you that it was ok and dandy for them? Please stop making ludicrous assumptions.

Controversy said...

@ EDj
Right now I am honestly embarassed for u. So because slavery was ok back then, that does not make it a sin? Let me ask u a question. Remember when they use to kill twins, in the olden days because they thought it was a "CURSE"???
Was that practice a sin? Or was it just wrong?

Hahah @ However, the act of taking those Africans to another country and making them work for nothing...is that a sin? If the slave-masters had miraculously avoided all the murder, etc and had simply transported those people to their countries with no harm whatsoever but had still forced them to work for no pay, would it be as big a question?

Ok honestly I am beginnin to despair arguin with u. How the hell can't u see that such a thing would be a siN? Maybe somebody should come and enslave ur ass and make u work for no pay then maybe u would see wheree I was comin from. I am telling u mehn, it's ppl like u that would justify classifyin slaves as property and not people. Such nonsense drivel.

@ ttolla
Thank u jare my sister, u are definitely one of those christians that I like to admire. U speak truth. U don't try to justify rubbish.

Enoch said...

@ttlolla
You have killed me oh! Despite my very envious humility, you accuse me of pride and congenital drunkenness. Kai, Anyway, I'm covered with the blood of Jesus.

This slave issue is a lose/lose situation. I don't like quoting from the bible but I submit Exhibit A. Ephesians 6:5-6

"Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and with sincerity, just as you would obey Christ" [Pause for dramatic effect] "Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart"

Amen!

Well, ttlolla. If slavery "goes against the general standard of what is good/evil' why is God advocating evil?

If God is in reality promoting good, why do we say slavery is wrong?

And you admit "wrong" is relative. You do realize that "right" in some cultures involves "spousal exchange"

ttlolla said...

@EDJ:
are you reading your comments over?

You are saying rape nd murder are sins

Rape takes away your pride , murder takes away your life
Bt slavery takes both your life and freedom .

Are you saying God is ok with this ehn dude/lass. What wld jesus say about this?

Yes, jesus did reference paying of staff, he talked bout not owing your staff money.

Ppl amaze me sha, by the way EDJ , marrying your cousins was once ok in the bible, eating shellfish and eating snail once wrong
Defend that EDJ , cos am a christian but when something does not make sense I admit it

Controversy said...

@ Lady X
So true @ this your statement.
And who told you it was ok back then? Did the past slaves phone you from the grave to tell you that it was ok and dandy for them? Please stop making ludicrous assumptions.

Controversy said...

@ Ttolla don't mind EDJ o.
EDJ please do u remember when "WOMEN were viewed as second class citizens in the bible? When they were commanded not to teach/ have authority over men? Am guessin that since the bible approved of it, it must be all fine and dandy then?

ttlolla said...

@enoch .
Was not referring to you was giving an example, silly!

I am commenting too much sef ahn ahn, Dnt I have my own blog? Lol

Enoch said...

As annoying as it might seem. EDJ is giving an accurate interpretation of the bible. Slavery is not a sin in the bible. But the real question is why should we follow a standard that is so in your face stupid?

@EDJ
So wrong is a collectivist idea. If my society says its cool to eat other humans, then that's ok. So basically, I can do anything I want to do as long as "my society" says its ok?

Controversy said...

@ Enoch.
Thank u my broda @ So wrong is a collectivist idea. If my society says its cool to eat other humans, then that's ok. So basically, I can do anything I want to do as long as "my society" says its ok?

@ Ttolla
Lol damn hun u finally agreed with me. I knew this day would come.

ttlolla said...

@EDJ

The justification the slave masters gave for their atrocities were the bible, maybe this is unfair bt from the comments you put above, you would be one of those frankly deranged and callous men who enslaved , raped and murdered africans because ' the bible does not call it a sin'

There is s'thn called blind faith, which is what you are doing, even God does not expect stupidity of us, that's why he gave us the spirit of discerment,. Ask the holy spirit for it!!!!

@bubbles .

Deadly sin? what is that?
All sins are sins

Enoch said...

@ttlolla & every other christian

How can you guys be vexing with EDJ for repeating what her God has said? The same God you guys worship. The Christian God approves of slavery. Period! That removes it from the list of what is accepted as sins. EDJ is right!!! If the bible says slavery is not a sin, slavery is not a sin!!

But lets focus on what matters. You Christians are worshiping a God that says thou shalt not steal but yet permits man to steal the freedom/pride/freewill of his fellow man in the form of slavery. Paradox much?

@nonny
Asking for my letter is not slavery oh. That one is a consensual transaction o. Just saying.

EDJ said...

Ludicrous assumptions? It WAS OK back then. Are YOU kidding me? Slavery didn't become "wrong" until a law passed to say it was wrong, and please remember that in the US enough people still felt that slavery was "ok" enough to start a civil war over that argument. (amongst other things).
How am I not correct to say it used to be ok?

Y'all are getting way too emotional on this issue.

"I hope someone could enslave you for just a week and you can come back and tell me again whether slavery is a sin"

Really? Its that serious?

Excuse all of you, but it seems that you are commenting under the assumption that I am a supporter of slavery. So, because I don't agree that something qualifies as a "sin" therefore I am for it?

@Controversy:
"WOMEN were viewed as second class citizens in the bible? When they were commanded not to teach/ have authority over men? Am guessin that since the bible approved of it, it must be all fine and dandy then?"

Where did I mention the bible in my argument? It is WRONG to treat a woman as a second class citizen. But IS IT A SIN? Like you said, the bible approved of it.

It is WRONG to engage a slavery, but IS IT A SIN? That is the question!!

This is why I dislike commenting on "trigger point subjects". It's like trying to have discussions about women's rights with a feminist. Once you say one word everyone gets all excited and stops thinking.

I repeat, Slavery is wrong, so the idiots (yes, I said idiots) hoping that I will become "enslaved" one day because they think I support will be just fine.

This is why we need separation of church and state.

If you have the part of the bible where God clearly said, thou shalt not own and mistreat another human being, then slavery was a sin. IF that part is not in the bible then slavery is not a sin. It is still wrong, but it's not a sin.

There is a difference between "wrong" and "sin".

EDJ said...

PS: I would not be one of the "deranged" people owning slaves because I do not believe it is right to do so. I do not need to hear that something is a sin before I avoid it.

@Enoch, I do believe "wrong" is a collectivist idea. Because it varies from place to place. However, the only people who "do what they want" are people who have no belief in the idea of a "judgment day" at the end of their lives. So, in the end, religion is what stops most people from acting out (though sometimes it is the impetus).

Controversy said...

@ Enoch
Ur right, if she's arguin from a biblical point of view then EDJ is 100% right. The bible does approve of slavery.. But am tryin to see what kind of human being she is. Because this intrigues me, if someone approves of slavery simply because a book that was written 2000 years ago approves of it, then there is a problem.

As ttolla said, there is a common understandin of evil, and for EDJ to say that "slavery" is wrong but not a sin is nothing short of disgusting..

@ EDJ
please can u explain the difference between WRONG and SIN?

U realise that ur whole argument is based on "slavery" not being a sin because it is not written in the bible.
Like what the heck? Read ttolla's response to u @
The justification the slave masters gave for their atrocities were the bible, maybe this is unfair bt from the comments you put above, you would be one of those frankly deranged and callous men who enslaved , raped and murdered africans because ' the bible does not call it a sin'

Enoch said...

@EDJ
"However, the only people who "do what they want" are people who have no belief in the idea of a "judgment day" at the end of their lives."

I was under the impression that the only thing that counts on judgment day is sin not how much wrong(collectivist/relativist idea) you've done.

Why should judgment day prevent you from doing what you think is wrong(i.e. slavery) but not a sin?

Lady X said...

Please say that slavery is not a sin to some akata people and see their reaction. You think they will listen to your 'Sin' and 'Wrong' are two different things argument? And again I think it's easy for you to sit on your high horse and say it's not a sin cuz you haven't experienced it. I still think you should be enslaved for just a week.

There was no need to resort to name calling but just so we're clear actually you're the idiot (and I say this because a lot of other people would agree with me) for saying slavery is not a sin. And I can say you're an idiot happily because society would agree with me. Now about that?

Yep. Definately an idiot.

Controversy said...

@ Enoch
Thank u o @ Why should judgment day prevent you from doing what you think is wrong(i.e. slavery) but not a sin?

I think somebody kidnapped my friend EDJ cus i just don't know when she started "arguin" like this

@ Lady X
So true @ saying that to an akata..
It's just plain ludicrous..
Moreover, it was the same example with what happened with the akata girl and the nigerian girl. When the akata girl heard the 9ja girl say slavery was not a sin.. She could not believe it. Total madness..
Ppl will literally justify any shit just cus the bible approves of it.

Enoch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ttlolla said...

@controversy
@enoch

I can't defend God, but this is why I feel not everything in the bible can stand the test of time. I do believe God is timeless .

God help me!

@EDJ
there are things in the bible that don't stand up to much and are now regarded as sins
Take incest, some forms of incest were considered sins but in most societies today , marrying your cousins is now a sin which was not part of the original sin.

You know why somethings seem odd in the bible? Its cos it was written at a time when thise 'odd' things were normal
@controvesy :
Where are we celebrating our one off consensus

Controversy said...

Lol ENoch..
It's really appalling, and I am not even surprised by EDJ's response. I expected it, same way that other christians I brought it up to justified it.. Such nonsense. People were enslaved for close to 200 years and u have the right to term such a practice as being wrong but not a sin..
Lol human beings are wonderful. Am telling u bro, it's ppl like EDJ who would look for any reason to justify killin jews in the Nazi era..
It honestly makes me admire the power of the bible from an objective point of view

Controversy said...

@ ttolla
Where do u want to celebrate it hun? Just pick a time or place..

Hmm ttolla
@ incest being a sin.. I wouldn't know if that was a sin o.. Cus i mean well lets just say that I do not consider incest to be a sin. But that's another matter.

ttlolla said...

@controversy

Yes its is, in lev , it states the people you can and cannot have sexual relations with......or xtians can s'one clarify this for us, wld have called on EDJ but I have become worried about her stance , if she can convince herself that slavery is not a sin

Controversy said...

Lol ttolla
It says all that but i mean enough ppl married their cousins etc in the bible.. I mean take able and Cain for example..
It's pretty obvious that the only way they wud have been able to hve descendants was for them to have "sexed" their own mother Eve

Enoch said...

@ttlolla
Slavery is not a sin. It is a disgusting deed but apparently it did not disgust God well enough to make it a sin.

Is your definition of sin different? Is it a dependent on your own judgment? If you are afforded that liberty to judge what is sin, imagine what Hitler's ten commandment would look like.


@incest
If God created only Adam and Eve, we are all a result of incestuous relationships.

Technically, if you go far along the generational tree of any pair of humans, they'll eventually collide. So whats the limit for what is considered incest? having the same grand parents? abi same great great great....

ttlolla said...

@controversy
@enoch

We are agreeing on incest , it happened , the ones between cousins was condoned but the bible didn't mention the one btw cousins as wrong but in 2009 we knw every kind of incest is a sin bt

@controversy :you think incest is ok ? Leave your pretty coz alone oo...lol

Enoch said...

@ttlolla
"but in 2009 we knw every kind of incest is a sin bt"

Explain yasef.

Lady X said...

Actually getting with your cousin isn't incest to me. So I'm kinda lost here. Not that I would get with any of my silly cousins.

Toochukwu said...

Slavery is almost as old as mankind. It still exists today in less obvious ways, covertly and overtly controlled. In essence we are all slaves to sin but saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. God allowed slavery but commands us to look to Him not our earthly masters/rulers and serve with lovingkindness no matter the case. The battle is already won just accept the truth!

Enoch said...

@Toochukwu

Do you find slavery disgusting? If yes, why do you serve a God that approves of it? If you were a slave during the era of the middle-passage, would God answer your prayer for freedom in light of Ephesians 6:5-6? Or would you just obey him and serve your master diligently? Is slavery not theft? Theft of freedom? isn't that a paradox with thou shalt not steal?

"The battle is already won just accept the truth"

Can you give us that thing that enables you discern truth with so much ease&confidence? Is it smoke-able?

Controversy said...

@ ttolla..
Hmm i disagree with u @ this one oo..
Incest is not a sin..

@ toochukwa..
Lol nice way for u to avoid answerin the question..
Is slavery a sin? Do u approve of it? and if u say No.. Why does the God u serve approve of it

EDJ said...

"Tell an akata slavery is not a sin and see what they will say."

Well I am NOT an African American and I do not have an extremely personal connection with slavery. I am saddened by the fact that it happened, but I have no bias to immediately classify it a sin despite it's obvious wrongness.

@Controversy:

"ppl like EDJ who would look for any reason to justify killin jews in the Nazi era.."

"if someone approves of slavery simply because a book that was written 2000 years ago approves of it, then there is a problem."

This is inflammatory bullsh*t. I clearly said murder is wrong and is a sin. So how the hell did you reach the assumption that I would be justify killing Jews? I also clearly said--repeatedly--that I do not support/justify slavery, so where the hell did you get that comment from?

I can't understand this. Is that what you all need to sleep at night? It is not enough that we ALL agree that slavery was wrong and shouldn't have happened. But, unless I go that extra step and classify it a "sin" then I am crazy?

I've said this over and over. I AM NOT JUSTIFIYING OR SUPPORTING SLAVERY. The fact that some people are commenting as if I do, is evidence that some of y'all failed English Comprehension in high school. I have never said I supported/justified slavery. Controversy keeps saying I am using the bible as my basis for justifiying it. I am not justifiying it.

Slavery is RAMPANT in the bible, and regardless of this, I have decided that it is WRONG. But is it a sin?

@LadyX
"And I can say you're an idiot happily because society would agree with me. Now about that?"

Excuse you, but society would not agree with you. Everyone agrees that slavery is wrong. But whether it is a sin or not is in disagreement. I may be one of a few voices of dissent on this blog, but this is proof enough that society is not in agreeement. If you don't believe me, have this argument with other people.

AGAIN, I am not justifiying/supporting slavery. Whether it is in the bible or not. I am pointing out why the argument CAN be made that slavery is not a sin, despite it's wrongness.

EDJ said...

I will also add, that the very fact that slavery is rampant in the bible is yet another problem I have had with the bible.

It wasn't ok when it was the Israelites that were slaves and Moses had to come free them, but in later passages when the Israelites owned the slaves then it was fine?
More evidence that the bible has issues.

I am against slavery, and in the end calling it a sin is a personal decision. A decision probably influenced by a person's connection (or lack of) to this event. It is not a sign of some sort of "moral defect" if someone doesn't agree with the rest of you that it is a sin. We all know it's wrong. Let us leave it there.

Enoch said...

@EDJ
"We all know it's wrong"

I don't. I'm a society of one. And I say there's nothing wrong about slavery.

Controversy said...

@ EDJ
One could justify that killing Jews is right because God did use Nebuchanezzer in the bible to enslave his ppl..
Hitler afterall said, that his extermination of Jews was "God's will"..
And if u really look @ what he said, he did have a point. He was certainly not the first nor the last person the biblical God had used to punish the jews..

EDJ
U are fuckin wrong that it is not a sign of a moral defect..
It is a fucking moral defect, i can't even believe that this is something debatable. In this day and age? Not to mention that u are of black ancestory, so tell me EDJ u can look ur african american friends in the eye and tell them thaat slavery was wrong, but it was not a sin? Am guessin that colonialism was wrong, but it was not a sin as well?

Controversy said...

Lol @ Enoch..

Reine D'Afrique said...

you had to go there? really?
Yes, Slavery was wrong. Slavery, was even disgusting. But it is not a sin. and while you are passing yourself as a connard et salaud, please do not put me in a category of the 3/5ths. That is an insult at best.
People like me? Va te faire enculer!

Controversy said...

@ Reine
Yes u are in that category..
Such bull @ something is wrong but it's not a sin..
That's crazy.. Ur a sell out to your own black ppl. Wat a mess. Good to know that u wud accept something that enslaved ur fellow black brethren as wrong but not a sin. Humph

juiceegal said...

Hmmmm This is the first time that i'm agreeing with you a hundred percent controvesy.
Why slavery was celebrated in the holy books is one thing i have always questioned and i would continue to question.
Now to those people saying slavery is not a sin, dont't you all ever question things?? I mean it baffles me how blind we are because of so called 'faith'. People are too scared to question certain things just cause the Bible/Quran says so.

Enoch said...

@Reine
You kiss your mum with that mouth?

Reine D'Afrique said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Reine D'Afrique said...

@Controversy....
My own people? now, I don't have to go into all explanations of white vs black people etc.
I don't care if they were black, white, red or orange...slavery is not the greatest of human practices. Neither will I ever agree with that. I will never own a slave, (even though, slavery is still going on today) I don't imagine you have ever heard of IJM or Not for Sale. Check it out, I happen to be an active member of both.
While I believe the practices are atrocious, I do not believe that people practicing will go to hell for it. When they do, it won't be because they owned slaves principally speaking.

@Enoch.
Je n'embrasse pas ma mere, donc je vais etre parfait.
Plus, a moins que votre traduction ne soit mauvaise, je n'ai dit rien que je ne dirais a personne interpretant comme un connard.

EDJ said...

"Now to those people saying slavery is not a sin, dont't you all ever question things?? I mean it baffles me how blind we are because of so called 'faith'."

Obviously we question things, otherwise we would be saying slavery was "ok" as well as not a sin. No-one is saying it is ok.

All these people saying I am black therefore I should be pre-disposed to calling it a sin. So I can't have my own opinion based on my skin color? I MUST agree that it is a sin because of where I am from? Or how African Americans feel about it?

Isn't that the same kind of logic this blog is arguing against?

Reine D'Afrique said...

EDJ, you are becoming my new best friend

Controversy said...

Hahhaha @ Reine @ While I believe the practices are atrocious, I do not believe that people practicing will go to hell for it. When they do, it won't be because they owned slaves principally speaking.

So the practice was "atrocious" but the people who practiced them will not go to hell?... Really, there is madness this days in the world.
Hey Reine is "lying" a sin? Because if u say it's a sin, u know ur literally saying that ppl who have committed a little as lying will be in hell why dem slave onwers will be there chilling in heaven?
@ Juiceegal
Thank u hun .. Ur reward is in heaven.

@ EDJ
Ah ma bi nu, it's definitely ok for u to have ur own opinion. Umm EDJ don't deceive urself o, right now u are supporting the practice of slavery. How can something be wrong, and not be a sin? People were taken captive from their homes, bound, shipped, a lot of dem died while being shipped across the sea. They threw a lot of the dead ones into the sea, and ur telling me that such a practice is not a sin?
Kini big deal with ur conscience self?

Reine D'Afrique said...

@controversy.
Okay...get over yourself. NO one is supporting the practice of slavery.
And lying is a sin. (A lying tongue etc)

Little as lying? well, take that up with God. I did not mandate "such a little thing as lying" to be a sin.

Atrocious, and evil, yes. And lets be clear you are speaking of slavery of blacks in the US, Carribean and Euro right? because slavery takes different forms and definitions. After all, I am not black enough because I do not think that slavery is not a sin. lol, oh my. Sometimes you truly make me laugh

Controversy said...

@ Reine
Slavery in every shape or form, u do realise that the jews were enslaved by the egyptians? So that enslavement wasn't a sin? If it wasn't a sin, why did ur God then punish the egyptians for something that was clearly not a sin?

Olafusi Michael O. said...

I know this will sound kind of (not sure the right word). You see, sin is not an act or what is wrong or what is not right.
I'll explain -
If I follow the truth and do that which is right till I die, I aint gonna make heaven. Though, I never did something bad or scripturally wrong.
Sin is a nature, what we have inside us all until God removes it.
As for is slavery a sin? and if not God must be a sinner to have even instituted it at some point in the history of the Israelites?
Slavery, like stoning to death, life for life, tooth for tooth, eye for eye etc is (brb)

EDJ said...

"People were taken captive from their home": kidnapping is a sin because it constitutes stealing. But you will be happy to know that the Europeans weren't the ones doing the kidnapping it was africans kidnapping africans. So score one for Africa!

"A lot of dem died while being shipped across the sea": murder, is another sin.

"They threw a lot of the dead ones into the sea": disposing of a dead body in the most convenient way is only a sin depending on your religious belief.

The practice of owning another person and forcing them to work for you: debatable as a sin thanks to the bible's ambiguous nature.

We are talking about slavery here. As I mentioned before. A lot of horrible things happened under the blanket of slavery. But is the actual practice of owning another person a sin? Taking a leaf from the bible I would say no. Though I believe it is wrong to own another person--bible or not.

Reine D'Afrique said...

@Controversy...
now for your Bible lesson...
were the egyptians punished for slavery? Really?
Read your Bible again

Enoch said...

@EDJ
"kidnapping is a sin because it constitutes stealing."

So now we only consider stealing a sin when what is stolen is a physical artifact?

Let me repeat what I said earlier.
"You Christians are worshiping a God that says thou shalt not steal but yet permits man to steal the freedom/pride/freewill of his fellow man in the form of slavery. Paradox much?"

Is theft of freedom a sin?

On the issue of right&wrong, how large does your society have to be before it is permitted to rule on what is wrong and right? A society of a dozen does not make the cut? A society of one?

Morals (right and wrong) are a whole lot of BullS%!t and you know it. You followed the logic only up to a comfortable point and then abandoned reason.

wrt to ethics/morals, nihilism is an inconvenient ugly truth.

Controversy said...

@ OLAFUSI
Ah what were they punished for?
Afterall what did the israelites use to thank God for? Didn't they say thank u from takin us out from Egypt and out of slavery..

@ EDJ
Hahah @ is the actualy practice of owning a person a sin? Omg ur being hella disingenous.. So I can own a person, and that won't be a sin.. But if i mistreat the person, tell the person to do stuff under that "ownership" that cosntitutes a siN? But the main owning is not a sin. Such bull

@ Enoch
THank u so much @ "Is theft of freedom a sin"..
She has been enterin the same trap over and over again.

ttlolla said...

I think we should draw a line under this

For those who think slavery is atrocious nd don't consider it a sin but consider telling a white lie a sin......then shows total blindness and how well they have been brainwashed you in sunday school

For those who feel it is a sin and it appears God had no qualms about it when the israelites were the captors , wait till you get to heaven and ask the commander in chief


Over to the authors to bring s'thn new, so we can 'discuss ' it without resorting to name calling

Olafusi Michael O. said...

(back)
As for is slavery a sin? and if yes God must be a sinner to have even instituted it at some point in the history of the Israelites?
Slavery, like stoning to death, life for life, tooth for tooth, eye for eye etc is a small part of a very big picture.
The bible is more than the words in it, (the letter kills it is the Spirit that gives life). To understand God (He reveals His ways to those who fear Him) with our reasoning is futile. In fact, His existence is foolishness to the wise.
My position is that slavery in itself is not a sin.
@Controversy
I am a little confused about what your question is.

David.фаворит Бога номер-один said...

the bible neither approved slavery nor bluntly disapprove but it did.
now, God gave us all brains, right? He neither forces you to serve Him nor forsake Him, he gave us all a freedom of choice which includes "the freedom to do evil (sin) or to do good"
Enslaving someone is evil if not God would not try to save His enslaved children just like He tries to save His children from sin. Slavery breeds reproach and so does sin and in short it is obvious that SLAVERY IS SIN (i don't want to go into long explanations) and that's certain.

But before you go ahead and ask why he let Joseph become enslaved and all...here's a fact i tell people; sometimes, to appreciate and value the SWEET part of life, you have to taste the BITTER part. Now, we are all uniquely different and our personalities are unique to "US" and "US" alone. People learn in different ways...so, who knows...if Joseph had become prime minister without going through some amount of suffering, he may not have been humble and compassionate as he was...it's God's way of preparing a man because HE WILL NEVER TAKE AN UNPREPARED MAN TO A PREPARED PLACE, get it?

now i rest my case, bro...LOL!

Controversy said...

@ Ttolla
The question ttolla is if the commander in chief does approve of slavery..
Then his moral standards need to be checked and rechecked again

@ Olafusi
Lol ur logic makes sense, if indeed slavery is a sin then that would mean that the biblical God is a sinner..
Lol @ very small part of the big picture, but those small parts can land u in hell can't they?
Olafusi uve not explained why slavery is not a sin. So am assuming if i came and took ur family members, put them on a ship and have some of them die on the ship while being bound, then rape some of them, then cut of their feet if they tried to run away.. All these things would be fine to u ehn?

@ David
@ the bible neither approved slavery nor bluntly disapprove but it did.

Huh what u talking about? @ bluntly disapproved...
It approved of it plain and simple lmao.. Why u tryin 2 sugar stuff stuff that is very very PLAIN

Enoch said...

@David.上帝最喜欢的头号

I'm sorry but I expect a Christian to take God's word over yours.

Ephesians 6:5-6
"Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and with sincerity, just as you would obey Christ" [Pause for dramatic effect] "Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart"


Like I said earlier to ttlolla

"Slavery is not a sin. It is a disgusting deed but apparently it did not disgust God well enough to make it a sin.

Is your definition of sin different? Is it dependent on your own judgment? If we are afforded that liberty to judge what is sin, imagine what Hitler's ten commandments would look like."

Controversy said...

Ephesians 6:5-6 "Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and with sincerity, just as you would obey Christ" "Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God... from your heart" Obey ur slave masters even if they rape ur wife/daughter,sell ur kids,cut off ur feet(kunta kinte) nd whip u.Don't u just love the bible?God is really really good.

EDJ said...

@ttlola
"then shows total blindness and how well they have been brainwashed you in sunday school"

You'll be glad to know that I never went to Sunday school, I only attend church on major holidays, AND I only read the bible for homework purposes (sometimes not even then).

But yeah let us move on...

miss.fab said...

You were having a "religious arguments"? Hmmmm

Lol why did they have to be sipping tequila though? Why not margaritas or vodka or better yet, Smirnoff Ice ehn?!?!?

Ok I kid, I kid hehehe. Awright. Sorry for interrupting. Continue continue!

Enoch said...

@Controversy
@EDJ

I think I am attracted to the way EDJ dodges the critical questions.

I imagine that bit of escapist attitude contributes handsomely to her positions on faith and religion.


I'm gonna be gone for a while...

Controversy said...

@ EDJ
Maybe that's where ur lack of "morality' comes from ehn? Hehe maybe u should have gone to church more often as a kid.

@ Miss Fab
Lol hehe they cud be sipping magaritas to..
Why are u tryin 2 show them my "tabon" ehn.

@ Enoch
Lol @ her escapist attitude..
That doesn't shock me @ all.
Aight bro, be safe

Myne Whitman said...

I can see I came late to the debate this time. Blame a busy weekend.

EDJ spoke my mind on the issue of slavery. On hair, you're my guy Controversy.

Controversy said...

@ Myne
Damn myne? Even u to? Gosh disappointed

Tigeress said...

i can understand ur blood boiling but u have to accept that there are ignorant folks in this world. Even a non Christian will tell u slavery is from the pit of hell!

Controversy said...

@ Tigeress
Lol so true hun..
Thanks

Olafusi Michael O. said...

@Controversy
Nice try. In the first instance, you can't have an ant in my house except the LORD allows it. God is Sovereign and still actively in charge of the affairs of this world, that you find it hard to comprehend His existence and ways is of matter to only you.
Have you ever enjoyed the benefit of knowing God is in control and working things out for your good? How about the privilege of praying, asking for something big or small, possible or impossible and knowing God will answer?
I benefit a lot from believing in God and holding fast to my faith.
I also think you are missing a lot.
And about the horrible things God allows to happen, have read about Lazarus and the rich man? Was God unfair to Lazarus? There is more to each of us than in this present age.

Reine D'Afrique said...

Don't you just love how Controversy stretches a Bible verse and interprets it out of context?
I can understand why you don't want anything to do with your christian upbringing,
but you are doing the same thing that probably turned you away, stretching things out of limits

Anonymous said...

Can you please define Sin...............

Sin is define as A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate. or Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God.


Sooo is SLavery a sin... NOOOOOOOOOoo God of the desert does like slavery.

Now, if you use another word like is slavery unethical, or wrong your explantion would be right but your choice of words " sin" is rooted in religion and means to disobey gods laws... which god is in favor of...

Therefore slavery is not a sin... like the NIgerian lady said.....

Yessi Massa

Tosin said...

well, I don't know about the Koran, but the bible never said people should have slaves. But the bible does say if somebody does have slave, they should treat them right and the slave should obey their master. Take into consideration the historical aspect. The bible was written during a period when slavery was apart of the society. It also depends on your definition of slavery. The racist American definition of slavery is different from the African version of slavery. American or british slavery were pretty brutal and the slaves were regarded as property that were lesser than humans. Slavery was common in the greek society, the Animistic or any African Society, the roman society, The Egyptian society. In Africa during the 16th century, if you were captured in war with other tribe, you became a slave, but it wasn't cuz of race and people weren't born into to slavery like in the Americas. If u had children, they weren't slaves. Even in the bIible the jews were slaves when they were in Egypt and then they were rescued by Moses, etc.
The bible is not given you permission to do it. If the bible says love your neighbor as yourself? then why would you make your neighbor a slave?

Controversy said...

@ Olafusi
What is the "more" to the story about Lazarus and the Rich man?

@ Reine
Lol na u sabi..

@ Yessa
Technically u are right hun, it is not a sin according to the bible..
But I am asking u as a human being, is slavery a sin?

@ Tosin
Lol tosin u know fully well that the bible does give u permission to do it.

Olafusi Michael O. said...

@Controversy
The more is -
Luke 16:25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.'"

Controversy said...

So basically all ur saying is
"Suffer Suffer for world, Enjoy for heaven"?

Olafusi Michael O. said...

No, I'm saying there is more to life than this present world.

Controversy said...

Of course there is, nobody was arguin that fact.

Olafusi Michael O. said...

Do you really mean what you just typed?
If you do, I perceive you aint far from becoming a Christian. Afterall, the bible says that we might haply find Him 'cos He his close to us. For in Him we live and move and have our being.

Controversy said...

Who says that the bible is the truth? If there is more to life, why does the bible have to be the "way" to that more in life?

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