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Tuesday, September 8, 2009

The Conception of Jesus

The alleged conception of Jesus in his mother's womb occurred in circumstances, which lay outside the laws of nature common to all human beings. The egg produced by the mother's ovary did not need to join with a part which should have come from his father, to form the embryo and hence a foetus. The phenomena of the birth of a normal person without the fertilizing action of the male's part is called 'parthenogenesis'. This form of reproduction occurs in some insects and flowers, in which the unfertilized ovum develops directly into a new life. In trying to present Jesus as a biological exception, Biblical writers and composers defied logic and science. It is shameful and repugnant that the alleged embodiment of God would be conceived like an insect or flower. Jesus did not need to a biological exception only in the way he was conceived in his mother's womb, but then presented as have grown in the same womb, was born and had a childhood that was biological or natural.

If Christ had to come into the world avoiding the impurity of human conception and birth, why did he not descend directly from heaven in person? If he can descend on the clouds at his still awaited alleged second coming, why could he not do the same at his first coming, thereby pre-empting reasons for doubt and saving far more of fallen humanity?

The Babylonian Talmud says that Jesus was a mamzer (literally a bastard or an illegitimate child). It says he was born out of an illegitimate union between his mother and a drunken Roman soldier. Only the offspring of incestuous or forbidden marriages are mamzerim. Children born out of wedlock are not mamzerim in Jewish law and bear no stigma, unless the marriage would have been prohibited. Children of a married man and a woman who is not his wife are not mamzerim (because the marriage between the parents would not have been prohibited), although children of a married woman and a man who is not her husband are mamzerim (because she could not have married him).

There are scattered first century Christian and Talmudic references to a miracle worker named Jesus ben Pantera. Among them is a quote from Origen, saying that his arch-rival Celsus had heard from a Jew in Jerusalem that Jesus Ben Pantera was born of Mary as the result of a rape by a Roman soldier named Pantera, and had borne the baby in secret. There may be something to this assertion, which would account for Mark's obvious embarrassment regarding the origins of Jesus since Gospel of Mark never mentions Joseph as the husband of Mary.

Note also that it was both the Roman custom and the custom of the Jews to include a patrilineal surname as part of a person's full name; yet nowhere in the New Testament does the surname of Jesus, (or Joseph, for that matter) appear. Jesus is often referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, a geographical surname that was usually reserved by Jews for illegitimate children of unknown patrilineage (Romans used the surname of the father, regardless of the legitimacy of the birth). The Talmud refers to Jeshu as being the illegitimate son of an adulteress named Mary Magdala.

The Talmud mentions Jesus' name 20 times and documents that he was born an illegitimate son of a Roman soldier called Panthera, nicknamed "the Panther". In many Jewish references, Jesus is often referred to as "ben Panthera". ‘ben’ means ‘son of".

Religious scholars over the centuries have discussed at length why Jesus was so regularly called ben Panthera. Origen of Alexandria (184-254 CE) is one of the greatest of all early Christian theologians, a historian and clergyman. He was appointed to succeed Clement of Alexandria as head of the catechetical school of Alexandria, where he had been a student. Prior to St. Augustine, he was the most influential theologian of the church.

He recorded the following verses about Mary from the research records of a highly regarded second-century historian and author named Celsus (c. 178): Mary was turned out by her husband, a carpenter by profession, after she had been convicted of unfaithfulness. Cut off by her spouse, she gave birth to Jesus, a bastard; that Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt; that while there he acquired certain (magical) powers which Egyptians pride themselves on possessing - ‘Contra Celsum’ (Against Celsus), 1:28.

Later, in passage 1:32, Origen supports the Jewish records and confirms that the paramour of the mother of Jesus was a Roman soldier called Panthera, a name he repeats in verse 1:69. Some time during the 17th century, those sentences were erased from the oldest Vatican manuscripts and other codices under Church control (Origen 1:28 and 1:32) by Lommatzech in his Origen Contra Celsum, Berlin, 1845.

Contra Celsum (Against Celsus) is a closely reasoned long apologetic work refuting arguments advanced by the philosopher Celsus, an influential 2nd-century Platonist of Alexandria and perhaps the first serious critic of Christianity.

The early Christian church writings of St Epiphanius (315-403 CE), the Bishop of Constantia/Salamis, the metropolis of the Island of Cyprus, again confirm the ben Panthera story, and his information is of a startling nature. This champion of Christian orthodoxy and saint of Catholicism states: Jesus was the son of a certain Julius whose surname was Panthera – ‘Haer’ (Heresies), lxxvii, 7.

While very young, St Epiphanius followed the monastic life in Egypt. On his return to Judea he founded a monastery at Besanduk and was ordained to the priesthood. In 367 his reputation for asceticism and learning brought about his nomination as a bishop.

According to Jonathon D. Michaelis, Commentaries on the Law of Moses, vols. I-IV (1814), the story of Mary's pregnancy by a Roman soldier also appears in the sacred book of the Moslems, the Koran. It states that "a full-grown man" forced his attentions on Mary, and in her fear of the disgrace that would follow she left the area and bore Jesus in secret. This story was supported in the Gospel of Luke, with the description of the departure of Joseph and Mary from their home prior to the birth. Rape was a common event in Palestine during the Roman occupation, and soldiers were notorious for their treatment of young women.

It would be unthinkable for Mary to admit such an event had occurred, for under the Law of Moses a betrothed virgin who had sex with any man during the period of her betrothal was to be stoned to death by the men of the city (Deut. 22:21). Simply put, Mary faced the death penalty unless she could prove her innocence.

There are numerous rabbinical sources from the early Christian period, which refer to the Jesus of Christian fame as Jesus ben Pantera from Nazareth. There are several interesting references to a Jeshu ben Pandera from Nazareth who travelled around and practised as a member of the Essene Movement during the reign of Alexander Janneus, who ruled Palestine from 104 to 78 BCE. He was declared a heretic by a temple court, was stoned to death and hanged on a tree on the eve of Passover in 88 BCE.



Bubbles said...

ok I'll be honest
I scrolled through this
You need to break down your blog posts
don't write too much in one post
it way too much to read

are you a christian?

Controversy said...

Hey Bubbles..
The Blog has undergone a reconstruction.
Two people actually now author this blog, and the two of us are not christian. We are deists.
My other friend posted this blog, and that's why it seems like we have too many blog posts.
But no we are not christian.
Are u christian?

Controversy said...

Dayum baba blasphemy..
So not only did the holy spirit not impregnate a virgin.
Our Lord and Savior Jesus originated from rape? But do u think ppl will seek to know the truth? Nope. It sounds more illustrious and grandiose when they think of a holy spirit abi na angel michael fucking a virgin. And out of that virgin comes a child? Like people are so delusional it's crazy.
But everybody is entitled to their BELIEF.. Even if the belief is stupid.

Buttercup said...

Controversy, I don mention you o! I'll be back to read up here.. I wont lie, I'm 'scared' of what I'm going to read!

Controversy said...

Lol u won't be disappointed big sis.

muyiwa said...

just stopping by,cheers

Africanqueen said...

Blasphemy...I see you are well versed than my friend Controversy, who used to have some diarrhea of the mouth when it came to religion.
I understand that you are not a christian, and I understand that you will try to explain all things by intellectual pursuits.

But I have to wonder, do you understand the essence of Christianity? I mean, if we are going to be practical here, what is the point of then having hope, values, virtues etc, if all becomes a matter of practicality?

The reason why Jesus was a conception of miracle, and why, we believe in His purity, results from a phenomenon u r trying to explain. He was conceived in a way that his blood would not mix with his mothers, therefore making it pure. Yes...IT is not natural. and why would u want Jesus to be born like any other human being. It is also, not logical, and since God does not obey the laws of Science, and he is not bound by them, then you will agree that Science, has nothing to do with Jesus being born. (now, If you are a true Deist, you would understand this)

And aren't you mixing your Scriptures a bit?
There is the Bible, and there is the Talmud, which by the way is not part of the Torah. The Talmud, is still by large controversial as to its writers.

And Which Epiphanius readings are you referring to? He was refuting that heresy, and not confirming it. Read the second volume of the Panarion carefully. (and while we are at this, what does him being a learned young man have anything to do with this argument?)

cerberus said...

Hombre, usted muy polemico!!!!

BSNC said...

yea buttercup was right, you are different alright. welcome to blogsville :)

Controversy said...

@ AfricanQueen.

How is it logical to believe that a virgin was impregnated by an angel?
If u were Mary's friend and mary came to u and told u that she was pregnant. If u asked her who the father was, nd mary said "Angel Michael". What would u say to marry? Would u not hand her a dirty anti delusional slap?

THank u very much. I hope u get good vibes from the blog.

Controversy said...

@ AfricanQueen.

How is it logical to believe that a virgin was impregnated by an angel?
If u were Mary's friend and mary came to u and told u that she was pregnant. If u asked her who the father was, nd mary said "Angel Michael". What would u say to marry? Would u not hand her a dirty anti delusional slap?

THank u very much. I hope u get good vibes from the blog.

HYAW said...

wow! this is truly controversial and blasphemous. I came here from Buttercup's blog. This is so funny, it's been long i laughed in cap locks

two people. controversial and controversially Blasphemous.

Two deists, who have seen the light and who still want the truth. I thought seeing the light in that context always means seeing the truth. Two people who have seen the truth and who are still looking for the truth. are you deists, or you are two people searching for the truth?

Jesus was concieved like an insect, i never thought of that, but thinking of it now, maybe it is true. I also haven't thought of the fact that insects are concieved by the union of a virgin and a holy spirit. thinking of it now, i can't stop laughing in cap locks. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

Jesus was a bastard! so i heard! And as a bastard, you are forbidden to rise and become anything meaningful in the society, so you've implied. (And reading down the other post written by CONTROVERSIAL, who also sounds blasphemous, i heard or read him cry out at how unfair it was for the sins of the father to be visited on the children). If Jesus was a bastard, a child of rape, why should you start sounding like he should amount to nothing cuz he was a bastard. Or do you believe now that the sins of the father should be visited on the kid

all the various rabbinical sources you have cited are struggling to prove one point, which is 'Jesus was a bastard, and as a bastard, he has automatically lost the right to become anything meaningful in life'

what is the purpose of this post. trying to stop people from worshiping Jesus? or you are getting more deists to join your belief? so let's say i want to start believing your post, which should i believe, which should i preach to my friends. 'Jesus was concieved like an insect, Jesus was a rape child, Jesus was born by Mary Magdalene, or Jesus was concieved by Mary the mother of Jesus.(cuz unlike you, i do not think it is fair to just talk, i like to convince).

I recommend you to re-read your post, then make a a new post, deeply appreciating those who took their time to compile a whole bible, without being as contradictory as you have been in this single post

I should say you have forced me to read an alarmingly long post and at the end i have found out after my reading, that you did not do your research well. you did not do research at all. all you have is a series of confused, contradicting, citations.

which begs the question. Are you telling the truth or you are asking us for the truth.

i would answer my question, you are asking for the truth, so i would tell you the truth.

if you want freedom to believe all the contradicting sources you have cited, you should give Christians the space to believe their own biblical source.

there is more to life than just Logic and science. It is not necessary to try to know God through common sense, because God created common sense.

finally, here is to acknowledge your right to blog about anything that comes in to your head.

i acknowledge that right, that is why i am not still laughing in cap locks.

Lolia said...

Okay so on a complete side note, I totally used to have this template..

And I promise I'll be back soon to read the entire post..Just came to say welcome to Blogger :)


Controversy said...

Indeed you are right when you say that there is more to life than just logic and sense.
But when your faith distorts truth, then it becomes necessary to switch to logic and sense to strip it off of it's ludicrousity

Controversy said...

No i really doubt that Blasphemy is tryin to say that because Jesus was a bastard he should not be successful. But he is tryin 2 prove that indeed Jesus was not as pure as they sugarcoated him to be.
Neither did his mom sleep with an angel. All of this things are ludicrous, and please after reading my post about the devil and fair hearing. Wat did u disagree with HYAW? Lol

HYAW said...

I disagreed with almost all your post. i am glad you take kindly to criticism cuz now i can go back to the posts and really disagree. for the devil and fair hearing post, i would reply you, if you can give me a version of what you think Adolf Hitler's own fair hearing might have been.

as for the present post
how can you use the bastard thing as an example of Jesus impurity.

without calling him a bastard, there is plenty of other evidence that might have made him impure. why should the circumstances surrounding his birth make him impure.

I don't think you have read the bible well enough because nobody painted Jesus of Nazareth pure. He came in the form of a man so he could live like a man. he was always in the company of drunks, he went about with some women of questionable character yet he was the son of God. his life on earth was a message. if Jesus came to the world and acted really holier than all of us, maybe i would never have believed that God could take me as his own child, because i would never have been able to measure up.

But that message is over. Now Jesus is dead and he is the right hand of God. Just like you see science and logic, there are those of us who actually see spiritual things. I see because i believe.

I think, if you want to be a diest, you should concentrate on being a deist and doing it without looking down on other people's believes. i think deists believe in God, but here you talk down on even God. so i think you guys should call yourselves atheists, waiting to either become Deists or christians

Controversy said...

Lol trust me i respond to criticism very very well. HYAW
Adolf Hitler would have been tried in a court, prosecuted to the full extent of the law. He might have been a criminal but criminals deserve a chance in court to be tried by their peers.
Wow @ nobody painted Jesus of Nazareth pure. Have u forgotten the portion where it says Jesus came to die for our sins? Dat he was deemed pure enough to merit him dying for his sins. If you say/agree that jesus is not pure, then u shud also agree that his impurity cannot have washed away ur sins.

Wat spiritual things have u seen HYAW?

BTW sorry if blasphemy has not replied, he's busy. He will rebut ur statements when he gets on.

Enoch said...

Thank you Controversy and Blasphemy. Tell these people the truth let it set them free.

Personally, I don't think you need to read any Talmud or Torah or whatever you call it to know that this Jesus and God of the bible is a total sham.

How 21st century intellectuals can buy into illogical writings of a largely illiterate age bewilders me. I mean, even right now if I tell anyone of these Christians that I climbed Zuma rock in Abuja and saw a burning bush that wasn't quite burning and God gave me ten rules. Them no go believe me.

But they are comfortably confident in the validity of such a story if it was written ages ago when belief in magic was common and when education was for a select few.


Firstly, You write so eloquently and masterfully. Now that's out of the way, you say you see spiritual things. Have you ever heard of the temporal lobe in the brain and its connections with subjective spiritual experiences? If every spiritual experience(including visions) you've ever had can be reproduced by exciting that region of your brain electrically would that mean anything to you?

I still dey vex about the irreparable damage being a lifelong christian has done to my psyche. I still have to pray in the midst of imminent danger just to get a calming Pavlovian effect that something larger than myself is in control even though I know there is no evidence of a God.

Controversy said...

@ Enoch
it's not only u. @ the irreparable damage being a lifelong christian has done to your psyche
And ppl be wonderng why i keep on criticisin christianity. I lost a good 16 years of my life to that ish.YEars dat i can never get back.


Thanks bubbles for the advice i will make my blog very short next time
@African queen you seem to be well versed in these things well lemme start by telling that Christ was the only god or son of God to be conceived in a unique or supernatural ways Christianity is just a continuation of mithrasim so everything you see in Christianity 2day has happened somewer in the past long before Christ was born @ And aren't you mixing your Scriptures a bit? I AM only to show that the bible is not telling us the whole truth
@ hyaw your idea of a bastard not rising to be any thing in the society is a folklore that is very popular in igbo land all over the world bastards are running the show
I don't think you have read the bible well enough because nobody painted Jesus of Nazareth pure. He came in the form of a man so he could live like a man. he was always in the company of drunks, he went about with some women of questionable character yet he was the son of God. his life on earth was a message. if Jesus came to the world and acted really holier than all of us, maybe i would never have believed that God could take me as his own child, because i would never have been able to measure up well talk to your fellow xtians the have a better idea and version of this your theory

Controversy said...

Lool @ talk 2 ur fellow christians and them havin a better idea of her theory. Rofl blasphemy haha no kill me with laugh.

Africanqueen said...

did I miss the place where you actually answered all my concerns.
Now if this is going to be an equally intellectual discussion, why not address my concerns. You seem to be of some intellectual mind, so tell me please, what is truth?

I would wait for you to refute my statements...but since you seem to be jumpy here. let me ask a couple more questions.

Now, I am so glad you are aware that Christ is the son of God. The idea of the trinity might be a little confusing for deists, so lets tackle that on some time, when we take care of the basics of your argument.

yes, Jesus was conceived supernaturally. To try to explain supernatural means would be belittling God. Deists are supposed to believe in God. So, if you truly believe in the wholesome that is God, the amazing awe that is Him, why are you trying to explain supernatural matters in what, our finite minds cannot understand?

Okay, so please please explain other supernatural well, life!
93 million miles from the blistering surafce of the sun hangs the planet earth.
A rotating sphere perfectly suspended in the center of the universe. The ultimate creation from an infinate mind. An unbelievably intricate complex design....could you please explain that.
Or....well, i have another one for you
the size, position and angle of the earth is a scientific phenomenon to see.
A few degrees closer to the sun we'd disintegrate, a few degrees further, we'd freeze.
The axis of the earth is titled at a perfect 23 degree angle...
This allows equal global distribution to the rays of the sun making it possible for the food chain to exist. Is this a mistake? or maybe somehow a bing bang?
here is my favorite supernatural occurance. I mean this is mind boggling....
the combination of nitrogen and oxygen in the atmosphere we breathe every day. It just happens to be the exact mix that life needs to prosper, it doesn't happen on any other planet that way.

I am not done here....
how is it that the moon controls the tides, I mean if you think about it, it's the maid that cleans the oceans. Even the waves don't crash the shores in vain. The tides drag impurities from the depths of the sea, it's nature's constant recycling chain.
Don't you think that the fact that the stars will rotate with such exact precision is supernatural..or is there a science to that? That the atomic clock with an error factor of less than three seconds per millennium is set by the way we move.

if you think that all this is by accident, then I bow to you.
but if you believe in God, and you think that a God, who can do all this...cannot do otherwise, perform a small miracle like a virgin birth, then what kind of God do you believe in?

Blasphemy, there is my response. Look at my first too, and if you r up to it, lets hear what you have to say.

Enoch said...


Your comment is so beautiful. Beautiful because of the symmetry in it. Symmetry in relation to your ancestors of old. You like them are suffering from what I call the irreducible-complexity syndrome. Its a syndrome I coined to lump together people who go out of their way to point out mysteries and immediately attribute it to a higher power. When you come to think of it, its either the consequence of a lack of imagination, knowledge of history or scientific prowess.

It is because of people like you that our forefathers claimed that the rain was the tears of the gods. Your line of thinking is responsible for the ancients attributing lightening and thunder to supernatural forces. It is this ridiculous tendency to discount human ingenuity which you have displayed with so much audacity that has led to the scourge that is religion today.

Things we take for granted now like biochemistry, models of the pre-frontal cortex, DNA, Nuclear power (the engine of the sun) etc. These were all magical a couple of centuries ago. But today you ignore all of them and point to modern mysteries, like what is life? All these contemporary mysteries would be ignored and taken for granted by your descendants just like we take rain for granted. That is the power of the scientific method. The answers would come.

A few points of note from your comment.
Please don't go telling people that the earth is the center of the universe. That's ignorant. Nicolas Copernicus and Galileo Galilei did not waste their brain-time and suffer persecutions for nothing.

"A few degrees closer to the sun we'd disintegrate, a few degrees further, we'd freeze." My response to that is Ha Ha, two laughs.

The earths obliquity, Which is the tilt you refer to, is not a perfect 23 degree angle as you claim. It fluctuates I think between 22 and 24 degrees about every 40k years.

Before you go shouting at the top of your lungs at the unique combination of factors that support life on earth. Lets do a little maths. Ask yourself a question. How many planets can have that your sacred 22-23degree tilt?

Oya make we solve math. That tilt can range from 0 to 180 degrees nothing more, that's simple geometry. So immediately you can see that there's a 1/60 chance (3/180 degrees) that a planet would have a 22-24 degree tilt.

How many suns do we have in the universe? 7x10^22 (7 with 22 zeros). If there are 3 planets per star(which is a conservative estimate) that's 21x10^22 (21 with 22 zeros) planets in the universe. Spread your 1/60 odds around that number, that's over 3 and a half billion billion thousand planets with your sacred 22-24 degree tilt.

Babe, I can go on all day but let me make my bigger point. Why is your kind so in awe of complexity? When you see something that blows your mind it should set you on fire with a feverish overwhelming curiosity to explain it. If Wernher Van Braun looked at space and just got blown away by its sheer distance and complexity, he would never have invented rockets and we would have never gone to the moon or have satellite TV or GPS. If the ancient Sumarians looked at crops and went "WOW!, generation after generation of crops from a single seed, the complexity of the Gods!" we would not have organised agriculture.

Anything, and I mean anything that stares humanity in the face as a mystery is a testament to our ignorance not evidence of the existence of some God.

Belief in God is belief in ignorance.

Africanqueen said...

Babe? Excuse me...but did I miss the memo where you have permission to use such familiarity with me? If i did miss the memo please forgive me, and if so let me recheck my papers on my all the confusion, I might have missed it.

Now to your blabbering on top here. you seem to be familiar with the science.
Now before I say whatever I do say next...let me say this. Yup, I am a Christian. But above all, I am woman of Faith. Faith in God, Faith in the unseen, faith that there is more to this world than mere science, and mere beings cannot explain. I am also a gambler. I gambled my life away. What you say, while intellectually stimulating, does not faze me, as you see, I have already sold my soul, which equals to me being well, lets face it, I am sold in the Jesus, you seem so against. As I said, I gambled, if I lost, then I really have nothing to lose, but if I win, then people like you have a great deal to lose. I am willing to gamble that if Jesus came to save us from Hell, I will take the safe bet.

Now back to the intellect mind that you seem to be. But since you chose to bring your arguments in an adversarial manner, let me reciprocate.
You called me in a sense backwards, and brainwashed. I gues you might be right...I am grown woman, but I am lost to the point I can't make up my own mind.
oh little boy, I am sorry, but I am not that ancient. I promise you, people like me did not live in those days of our forefathers. Now, if they believed that rain were tears, I wasn't there to witness it.

I don't think I remember mentioning anything about earth being the center of the universe...get your reading glasses. and therefore seem to fail to understand where Corpenicus and his follower Galilei fit in that argument, unless you talking about the position of the sun etc.
and the tilt of the earth's axis is 23 degrees and to actually be exact it is 23.5.
as for your other facts...I really advice you not to go to Wikipedia. Its not exactly a trusted site.

Now Pardon my language here...since you seem to enjoy insulting people...but fool, where is organized agriculture? and that has been in existence since man knew he needed food. So get yourself together.

And come back to a little. Open your eyes, and while you do so, really be honest with yourself. Life is full of mystery. C'est la vie! Science will explain so much, and the rest, your brain is too small to comprehend. and comprehend the universe. As I said, minute, finite!

Enoch said...

BABE, after reading your comment, you bring to mind Albert Einstein's quote "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Quit burying your head in the sand. Our ancestor's belief that rain was the tears of the Gods did not make it so. Believing that the earth's tilt is a constant number and not variable hovering somewhere bw 22-24 does not make it so. In the same vein believing that there is a God, will not make it so. If life were that silly, I'll believe my private island into existence. Learn to make the distinction between what is in your mind and what is truly real.

"93 million miles ... hangs the planet earth. A rotating sphere perfectly suspended in the CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE." If I can't even hold you accountable to your own words then why should I even take you seriously? Like I said, abeg, don't go telling people that "centre of the universe" rubbish.

About your gambling metaphor. I'm guessing you're mathematically challenged and that's why you can't understand the odds f your gamble. If it were any different and you did see the probability distribution clearly, you'll know that believing in Jesus from the mathematical perspective of a gamble is no calculated/strategic risk or "safe bet" as you call it. Its just plain dumb! I'll break it down for you to retard-level.

To calculate the likelihood that your Christian belief would turn out right would need you to calculate the reciprocal of the sum of ALL POSSIBLE religious beliefs. Guess how many that is? Infinite!

That means the likelihood of being saved by your Christian God is 1/infinity = 0(zero). In case you don't follow, that's mathematical speak for ABSOLUTELY NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

Considering only mainstream religious beliefs, you are as likely to win your gamble as a Muslim, Buddhist or some Indian dude who believes in a dancing periwinkle god. EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE NOTHING, THE ODDS REMAIN THE SAME. So an atheist with as much skin as you do in the game lives a more robust and rewarding life on earth while you wait for your rewards in heaven which is a very slim possibility and as likely as that of a Muslim heaven.

Let me make this even clearer. If we die now and meet a Christian God, you're good and I go to Christian hell. Muslim God? we both go to Muslim hell. Buddhist God? we both go to Buddhist hell. Hindu God? we both go to Hindu hell. An atheist God who punishes theists for eternity and sends atheists to heaven for not believing in a God? I'm good and you go to fiery atheist hell :) Contrary to your wishful thinking, you are significantly more likely to land in some variant of hell than your special heaven. Your "safe bet" is far from safe and is no safer than an atheist's. Don't let the man-made fear of hell obscure your judgment. Your gamble is like throwing dice that have an infinite number of sides. Yet you're absolutely confident you'll get some arbitrary number.

You said "Life is full of mystery. C'est la vie! Science will explain so much" I choose to totally disregard an opinion on the limits of science from someone that can't even refer accurately to already established scientific facts like the earth's tilt or the location of the earth.

All the defects I've pointed out in your reasoning have roots in the religious attitude of baseless beliefs. I know you have invested a lot of faith in a man in the sky that you have no evidence for and cannot prove but believe just because some people wrote a book ages ago and claimed the man in the sky told them what to write. But abeg carry some faith and invest in your fellow humans that have time and time again proven beyond all doubt that they can crush mysteries and their associated ignorance to oblivion.

PS: Ooops, I forgot the part where I have to insult u. You are like that blabbering idiot who thinks shes a smart girl and who believes shes acting like an informed girl when in reality shes coming off as a blabbering idiot. But its ok, as long as you believe you're informed. OK, that's done now.

Africanqueen said...

oh Enoch, so wrongly named.
Well IDIOT...who thinks he is informed, but really sounds exactly what he is afraid to be...a blabbering idiot.

As I said, I am a gambler. Awful habit? maybe.

Your mathematical reductions are entertaining.
Now, again, Wikipedia is not an accurate source, so please, for the sake of everyone, go back to your text books.

Well thank you DOLL for giving me the permission to continue believing in what I do. you are so sweet!

Controversy said...

@ Enoch
I agree with you 1000% @ your whole comment about Hindu God, Buddhist God, Muslim God.
I just don't understand why ppl refuse, flat out refuse to think for themselves.
It's almost demeaning/disgusting. Tke africanqueen for example, she would probably die for this her christian belief. She has not had one ounce of proof that her God exists, nor is she even sure that her own brand of christianity is the true one. Yet they proclaim it from the rooftops as if they know it to be true

Enoch said...

Glad to know you needed my permission to wallow in your ignorance.

Sometimes you can understand in a roundabout way why sinister folks would open up a church and start living large on money from ppl like Africanqueen abi na Africandolt. Its almost like they deserve it.

Africanqueen said...

@both Controversy and Enoch...
yea, I am a dolt.
Proof of a God?
Controversy, you said your were deist right? Do you know what Deists believe?

by the way, there is no Hindu God, or Buddhist God...however, there are Hindu gods and Buddhist gods...these eastern religions defer from the western religions as there is one God vs the gods that they believe in.

Controversy said...

Deists do believe in the existence of a God, reason leads us to believe that only somebody supernatural could have created the earth, or only something supernatural. We call that something/somebody GOD.
Do we have proof that he exists? Nope.
Do we have proof that he talked to anybody? Nope.
We do not claim silly things like you christians do. God certainly never talked to anybody and a book written by men, and voted on by men should not be cast about as being from GOD.

Enoch said...

You've crossed over to the realm of unintentionally humorous. So in your part of the globe the CASE of the first letter in the word God strictly determines if you are referring to a monotheistic or a polytheistic belief? If you have any devout Hindu friends please go and tell them that their Gods don't deserve to be spelt with uppercase because them plenty. Afterward tell me what it feels like. The slap that is.

Don't mind them Christians they believe only their god(there I did it) deserves capital G. Their god that can part the red sea, can turn water into wine and create intelligent life that evolves into a cultural society. Yet he can't write his own book.

Africanqueen said...

@ Enoch
the difference is in the number. Remember in school when they taught you about singular vs plural?

Enoch said...

Singular or plural??!?? HAAAA.

Indulge me, please rephrase my allegedly erroneous sentence let me see.

I'm guessing we are about to learn something new about you.

Africanqueen said...

nothing new.

gods vs god?

plural vs singular....

Enoch said...

Grown woman, you dey fear?
Show me the sentence and rephrase it.

Africanqueen said...

apparently correct English also passed you by.

While you are at language school, do study religions too.
Hindu do not have a god they have gods...the same case with Buddhists.
(does that throw off your mathematical calculations)
oh and while on that, go and study the difference between religion and faith.

Enoch said...

The words monotheism and polytheism are too big for you?

Don't be afraid. I'm a logical guy. Show me the sentence and rephrase it.

$100 bucks says you're hung up on your inability to grasp ideas needing several leaps of logic.

Pretty please. Slap me over the face with my incorrect English by showing me the sentence and rephrasing it.

Africanqueen said...

lol ok