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Monday, September 28, 2009

Guilty?

                        


Every time I come to this blog, I am intrigued. I learn new things, and in the process, I am amazed of how finite my mind really is. And how truly different human beings are. Which is why I can truly say that if all this can be attributed to chance and the bing bang...then to hell with it.
At times I wonder why Mr. Controversy asked me to participate in this blog. it is definitely not because I agree with him, nor because I am so knowledgeable about theology. It might have something to do with the fact that I have argued with him at every point, (even though he has a point in some of his blogs). Anyways, as I pointed out earlier, my expertise is not really in Theology. I am a christian, Yes, I did a lot of reading and study of world religions...yes...but this is not where I would debate to have any expertise. As I describe in my own blog "I am a self-prescribed boring person who loves to talk and dance.If I was a man, I imagine I would take a liking to the Pipe. Mainly because I would rather seat and have "discussions"on politics, History, and Football, rather than be out on the dance floor or buckling on who is most righteous. I am a contradiction at best." and I might add, as a self-prescribed rebel, I am no respecter of persons.

So at best, I am guilty of a lot of things- and mostly, guilty by association.
In this blog, I am going to look at religion from the standpoint I understand best- History. (later,it might be politics.)

You want the truth...YES RELIGION IS GUILTY. I mean really guilty of a lot of malicious and unspeakable acts. Guilty of a lot of persecutions and mass killings. Ask me, and I will probably be the first one to tell you that I am not proud of Christianity as "religion" now as a faith...thats a whole different matter. For centuries, people of all different religions have been killing mostly each other, over who has the monopoly on God. The crusades, the Holocaust, witch hunting, the inquisition,...just to name a few. Yes, we are guilty. The Christians went for the Muslims, and the Muslims went for the Christians, and the struggle goes on (Exhibit, the middle east- although now, they fight for ideals) So while that is going on, everyone is going after the Jews. So yes, I belong to an old tradition that is guilty of a lot of persecution.
That was a fast forward, so let us rewind and fast ward to history, back to Paul. Who was a persecutor of Christians before he became one. ( I am aware that, this is a bit contradictory, but I am specifically focused on Christians and not the Jews) In truth, Jews became the first persecutors of Christians. It was not until Nero that we have full accounts of this persecution. Some might recall this incident as the Great Fire of Rome. After that, there were records of persecutions in Lyon, and here there under all the different emperors. But only two of the emperors are worth noting, Maximinus, and Diocletian. We can attribute Diocletian and his friends Galerius, Maximian and Constanius, for the great stories we hear about the Christians being eaten by lions. Outside of Rome we have Shapur in Persia and of course the Germanic tribes. all in all to say, Christians had a couple of hundred years where they were the hottest meat on the market. And that saga continues to present. Communist China, USSR, Islamic Countries...lets just say its not cool to be a Christian. I can imagine that sooner than later, these persecutions will spread, and some of our close friends will be the ones driving the dagger through our hearts.
This is not to say that the Church is not guilty of its own demise so to speak. To this day, the Church, specifically, the catholic church remain the most influential and wealthy institution in the world. (you don't believe me, visit the Vatican city). They remain if not true to themselves, true to their history. Their influence is undeniable, their atrocities over the centuries, so being the case undeniable.
Religion and God have been used as a clutch by the worst of murderers, and the same, has been used to do a lot of good. So it is quiet understandable that a lot of people would doubt its credibility. It makes matters worse when we have those adherents who push people away by being "religious". It is a historical fact religion and especially Christianity has not been perfect.
However, this does not discredit its credibility. Because to prove the credibility of something by using philosophical arguments, or by pointing to science, or by talking about the common wisdom that exists due to observing people - all of which has a place and are valid to a point, they are not sufficient. To discredit religion for its atrocities can be justified, to discredit faith, because it doesn't make sense to the human mind, is not sufficient. Or maybe for some that is all they need.

51 comments:

Controversy said...

Miss Sacred.
U are right I asked you have argued with me @ every point, but I also respect your own opinions. I like havin "open minded" arguments about things. I don't like being surrounded by ppl of like mindedness 24/7. I like ppl challengin my belief system, pointin out my hypocrisies from time to time. I point out all my flaws in my about me in this blog, I embrace what i am.
All churches sprang from the catholic church, so the CHURCH as a whole is responsible for the atrocities, afterall protestants committed atrocities in salem Massachusetts so lets not limit the blame to the catholic church.

Sacred said...

Who is limiting?
the witch hunts etc...yea, i can agree with you on that point.

Enoch said...

Let me point out the small persecution that happened to me in one of these ex-soviet blocks when I was still shrouded by the darkness that is Christianity.

Ruskie: Hey black man how are you?
Enoch: I'm ok. Horasho.
Ruskie: Where are you from?
Enoch: Nigeria.
Ruskie: Nigeria? You know Okocha?
Enoch: yes yes. Very good player.
Ruskie: you muslim?
Enoch : No.
Ruskie *frowns*
Ruskie: what religion?
Enoch : Christian
Ruskie: FUCK OFF! *Walks away in a fit*
Enoch: *Laughs*

Bubbles said...

"Darkness that is christianity'
A tad bit unnecessary don't you think Enoch?

Sometimes I wonder why I do not relate to this blog and then it hit me
I have never really 'questioned' Christianity before but for some reason
Controversy pisses the hell out of me *If I ever see you I am going to whoop your ass* lol
I guess maybe his posts want to make me question even if I don't want to *smh*

In any case
Every religion has its flaws no?

honey91 said...

pheeew!
i feel such a relief right now...after controversy's battle wiv leggy(which i refused to comment on) its like finally someone is looking at this from an unbiased view despite being a christian...
i most say...i like plenty!

Controversy said...

@ Honey91.
It wasn't a beef o. Me and that teenager fight? I cast and rebuke every spirit of fightin in this blog in Jesus Name. AMen. The devil was trying to use her to bring negativity into this our discourse. He did not succeed sha. I dare say that the spat between me and that teenager is over, I've wished her Happy Bday and dats that.

@ Bubbles
Lol honestly u can close ur mind to everything I say, I use to take that route to. I would never let any questions enter my head, i would stop myself from asking questions until I saw this one quote that opened my eyes to the world around me. "Every man/woman must do two things alone, they must do their own "believing" and their own "dying". If ur going to believe in something, believe in it because it is true and u are convinced without a shadow of a doubt that it is true. If ur not convinced, then u need to go look for the right one.

@ Enoch.
Lol @ still shrouded in this darkness called christianity.

Myne Whitman said...

Yes the church is historically guilty, but who/what is the church? The RCC in the Vatican or the woman who devoutly prays her hail Mary's in interior Brazil? Yes the church is guilty but what was the blood of Christ meant for? Has there been repentance?

Controversy said...

Lol @ repentance, u do realise that all these sins were committed after Christ died.
Repentance ko, repentance ni.

Bubbles said...

I'm still going to whoop your ass Controversy lol
I think you are an ass
but that's not going to prevent me from reading your posts with an open mind

Controversy said...

Lol bubbles.
Get it right, I am a jackass lol not just an ass. But a jackass.

Bubbles said...

Yeah
I'm going to go ahead and call you an ASS. Alright? Ok? Great.

Controversy said...

Lol no jackass is better.
Spoilt brat lol

Enoch said...

@Bubbles
"Darkness that is Christianity'
Amongst many reasons, if you were a victim of the crusades you'll probably agree with me.

Anyways, its out of character for me to talk down on a religion like that. I promise I'll apologize.

@Controversy
You know how far.

Enoch said...

@Myne Whitman
"Yes the church is guilty but what was the blood of Christ meant for?"
I was under the impression the blood of Christ was for carrying food and oxygen to Jesus' cells and also taking away waste from the cells, no?

Myne Whitman said...

@Enoch, Beofre I reply, can I have a full disclosure from you? I am a christian who can argue respectfully on any side of a topic. What do you believe or disbelieve?

Sacred said...

@Enoch....
"its out of character for me to talk down on a religion like that"....
Really? and here I have been misreading all your comments...shish forgive me oh seeker of truth for I have sinned. I did not know that talking trash about religion was not talking down on a religion. Sorry


@ Controversy...
YOur arse does not believe in Jesus so why are you casting evil spirits or demons in Jesus Name? you are full of bullocks.

@honey91...
I believe strongly that you cannot accept to believe in something if you are not willing to question it-to an extent. And also facing facts, but not letting them overpower you.

and now to the most honest question asked...
@Myne...
"who/what is the church? The RCC in the Vatican or the woman who devoutly prays her hail Mary's in interior Brazil? Yes the church is guilty but what was the blood of Christ meant for? Has there been repentance?"
The church in a historical context means both the RCC and the Brazilian woman. They are very connected, especially since the pope has a very strong influence on this "Brazilian woman"
The blood of Christ was not meant to be the "Get out of Jail Free" Card for the church to use. As for repentance...that is between Man and God. Forgiveness on the other hand and being contrite, Some have been, and others remained basking in their glory. Some like Henry the Navigator were led by these notions of Crusading, as their basis for explorations...and it can be said that the world benefited from that.

Controversy said...

@ Myne.
Lol @ wantin to know full disclosure.
So u can then attack his beliefs abi?

@ Sacred.
Sarcasm is terribly lost on u.
I like your response to Honey91

Enoch said...

@Myne Whitman
"What do you believe or disbelieve?"
I believe it is significantly more probable that God was invented. I also believe it takes a special kind of mind/courage to let go of a belief lifelong held. Especially when there is a threat of earthly death and "spiritual death" following you like a fitted noose.


@Sacred
"I did not know that talking trash about religion was not talking down on a religion." I can understand how the truth can seem like trash when you've bathed in lies all your life.(This is where I wave Copernicus in your face again) The church thought Copernicus was talking trash to religion when he confronted their earth is the center of the universe belief. I wield the same sword. You call it trash talk, I call it the sword of truth.

@Controversy
If you see the Akata babe I jam for party last night in Houston. The girl was soooo hot I almost gave my life to Christ.

Myne Whitman said...

@Enoch, if I come up with an argument that God was probably invented, can you argue that the man Christ is probably a savior?

Controversy said...

@ Enoch
Hahahahahah my broda, it wouldn't be the first time a woman has made a man go astray. Just look @ Eve for example.

Sacred said...

@ Controversy...I do not do sarcasm. So if you ever want to convey anything....straigh forward please.
and as for women leading men astray, it is easy when the male race is weak.

@ Sacred.
Thats your idea of truth. you need to come up with anothe basis for your arguments other than the earth is the center of the universe.

Sacred said...

That @ Sacred was for @ Enoch

Enoch said...

@Controversy
About leading astray. True talk.

@Myne
"can you argue that the man Christ is probably a savior?" Yeah! And I do the best job I can but its always a weak argument. You see the pesky thing about an argument being persuasive enough to tilt probability in its favor is that you need evidence. Unfortunately, faith is self-described as an evidence-free endeavor.

@Enoch
Firstly, I'm very touched that you hold me so dear to your heart that you call me by your own name. I know if I felt that way about you I'll probably make the same mistake.
Anyways, I'm a bundle of truth. I can go from orthogonality in Fourier series to osmosis in eukaryotic cells but lets not pretend we are ignorant of why Copernicus has a special Sacred effect.

Enoch said...

That @ Enoch was for @ Sacred

nonny said...

@Enoch
there's nothing wrong with talking to youself

Enoch said...

@nonny
Soliloquy has it's benefits.
Btw your writing is cool. But do u write secondary school style love letters? Can I contract you to do so? There's one babe I'm planning for.

Controversy said...

@ Enoch
Lol @ faith is self described as an evidence free endeavour... Hahaha

Lady X said...

I honestly don't understand this part.
"...to discredit faith, because it doesn't make sense to the human mind, is not sufficient."

nonny said...

@Enoch
secondary school love letters? ouch.
a babe? sigh, i am versatile.

Sacred said...

@Lady X
what is not to understand?
There are alot of things that do not makes sense to the human mind. There are unexplainables..part of life. Miracles, happen, and I have seen enough in my lifetime to not want to discredit those because they simply do not make sense.

@ Enoch...
It was a mistake, pure and simple. I am operating on highly caffeinated drinks as a result of late night dancing so Don't go blowing it up out of proportion.
So far I have heard...corpenicus, corpenicus cries.

Lady X said...

Now I get it, Thanx!

Myne Whitman said...

@Enoch, So you cannot make a case for it you say? Too bad. I tot I was dealing with an open minded person. And much more a strong debater. Sorry, then. see you next time.


@Controversy, You said you knew your bible but you did not recognise my quote? 1Cor 13:11

"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me."

Controversy said...

Lol @ Myne..
Oh am sorry, some christians usually say the full quote, they don't just say "When i was a child" and leave it @ that..

Myne Whitman said...

@Controversy, you say you were a christian and remain a deist. I tot I was speaking to a fellow. And I even asked if you knew your bible. Anyways, we'll keep talking.

Controversy said...

@ myne.
I said I WAS a christian, was is past tense o.

Enoch said...

@Sacred
Your response seems too defensive. Kind of like a two yr old caught with fingers in the soup pot. An indirect confirmation of sorts. Soon you'll be blowing me kisses.

With regards to Copernicus, I'm going to assume you're feigning ignorance not that you can't join the dots.

@Myne
You just might have an exaggerated opinion of your cunning.

Enoch said...

@nonny
"ouch"?
Writing secondary school style love letters is a more difficult literary art form than anything Shakespeare/Pushkin can come up with.

You'll need to add all that "you are the only monkey in my armpit" sturvs.

The babe is feeling too sophisticated, I want to awaken her internal mgbeke if you know what I mean.

Why the sigh?

nonny said...

@Enoch
just remembering the good ol days when it was as easy as:

will you go out with me? tick yes or no

Sacred said...

Oh my...wow. NOw apparently I am having endearing thoughts of enoch
yikes....where is the cyanide....

Controversy said...

LWKMD @ the only monkey in my armpit..
Enoch u no go kill me with laughter.

Enoch said...

@Sacred
Cyanide?
That's so 1600s.
What you need is Sarin. Total systemic failure in a matter of seconds.

But who are we kidding here? I can hear the aggressive fluttering coming all the way from new york. The butterflies in your tommy that is.

@nonny
pweety pweeeze? can you pen one?

@Controversy
I'm mulling over going full-throttle-controversial in my next post. Send the Xtians over the hill with their crusade attire and the Muslims stumbling over themselves to jihad me out. No ideas yet but that's the desired end effect.

@Myne
Hope you ain't upset. That wasn't an insult oh.

Sacred said...

@Enoch
I like to go out with Class.
And how do you know I am in New york? wait, I will have to look at my blog profile now and see what kind of information I have let out there. I have been here since 2005 and I am not sure whats there anymore.


and you are planning to give us a heart attack eh? hmmm
this I am gonna see.

nonny said...

@Enoch
Im waiting for your post. If it is all you say its gonna b, il write you d letter. and even draw some stick figures.

Controversy said...

Looooooooooooooooooool @ what u need is Sarin.
LWKMD so cyanide is no longe enough this days.
Lol enoch do what u have to do lol..U got saturday the whole saturday as ur day

Myne Whitman said...

@Controversy, I wrote 'were' which is also past tense. If you were a christian in the past, you can still remember some of your bible passages no? And a deist who wants the truth should be a student, read all texts so I will continue to encourage you.

@Enoch, just saw this now. Seems you're easily flustered if you have to resort to borderline insults so early in the game. And we're not arguing yet oo, just setting terms. Oh well, we'll keep talking.

Enoch said...

@Sacred
"And how do you know I am in New york?" Checking up your blog profile? Don't flatter yourself. You should eat more blueberries, helps memory.

"Trekking for Neuchatel truffles"

@Myne
Twas an observation. Nothing quasi-insulting about it. And you know it was on point.

Sacred said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sacred said...

@ Enoch

yes, but those truffles could be found anywhere in the six regions. You must be a whiz for sure, to have figured that, of all the other places that sell Neuchatel...(which are amazing btw) you chose nyc.
congrats...you have entered into the realm of psych and genius

Enoch said...

@Sacred
Seriously, you need blueberries for your memory.

"trekking to Manhattan for truffles. " Jesus! do I need to remind you of your own words?

Hope am back to average category.

Sacred said...

@Enoch
Ha...lol
good point. I don't remember saying that. oops then

no u r back on the annoying average I gues

Controversy said...

Lol @ back to annoyin average.