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Sunday, February 21, 2010

'Truth Don Die' funny story....

Lol I hope you guys find the picture funny because I sure did.

People of Blogsville, how una dey? Long time no speak, I have a funny story to share with you all. So I was invited to a 'baby shower' by my Sierra Leonean friend, her aunty was the one with child. So last night I completely forgot about the baby shower, and it was while I was at my friend's house that my friend who was suppose to take me there called me and asked me if I was ready. I told him that I was, mind you I had worn my 'Truth Don Die' shirt lol so we headed off to the baby shower party and all. Omo when I reached there, come and see how people where giving me strange looks and ish, me I come dey wonder maybe it's because am Nigerian and they are all from Sierra Leone. Afterall I've heard that other africans tend to hate on Nigerians because we got that extra swag *winks* hehe lol. Anywayz, as I was there and getting all these strange looks people where now coming up to me and saying 'Na who kill ruth? Ruth don die? How she die? As in people were getting sad and ish, so finally I asked them who in God's name was Ruth? My friend now told me that Ruth was the name of the woman who was giving birth to the baby. The woman who's party I had come to, and do you know why they were asking me 'Na who kill Ruth'?? Because my jacket was covering the 'T' in my 'Truth Don Die' shirt so all this while everybody was reading 'Ruth Don Die'. I swear una for come see the kind laugh wey I laugh, because only God knows the kind of uproar I had caused in that party. The Ruth self was not at the party, as she had given birth in the hospital that night, so you can imagine people where probably thinking I was the bearer of bad news.

The whole night turned into one jokefest for me, from everywhere people would come to see what my shirt said and ask why my shirt said 'Ruth don die'. When I now opened my jacket to reveal the T you would see the sad expression on their face change to outright amusement. Chai it was to funny guys, I can't shout but I can whisper.

Anywayz, now unto a serious topic. The other day I was at my friend's house and he asked me to watch something. This baby who had been in a Coma had woken up in a church after they had prayed extensively for her, so basically it was a miracle and ish. So as I was watching these thing, I was very skeptical, afterall this is not the first 'supposed Miracle in Church' video I had seen yet I had not been convinced. But after I finished watching the video, instead of normally shrugging it off like I would I started questioning myself. Remember in my older post 'Blogsville Peeps Come Hither' I had said something about how most religious people are quick to rush to the conclusion that something was a miracle without looking for other explanations to explain it. Well what happens, when the only explanation is a 'Miracle'?? Would I be able to accept it without being skeptical about it? I then realised that I 'don fall my own hand' because all this while I had been focusing on 'other explanations to unnatural events' but I had never thought about what then happens if the only explanation is a - Miracle?? Who then should it be attributed to??
Now most people would say, DUHHH!! attribute it to God of cause. But see I believe that if one would attribute it to God, one should maintain the possibility that it could be attributed to the devil as well.

I know somepeople are of the habit of believing that every good thing comes from God and every bad thing comes from the devil. But the bible itself puts rubbish to such a theory, afterall God did and has done bad things in the bible and if you need examples I shall gladly provide them. Now that I have ascertained that God is capable of doing good as well as bad, does it not stand to reason that Devil himself is capable of doing good as well as doing bad??

So then, as a rationale man I would say that the glory for a miracle should be split 50/50. Afterall it is a possibility that both God and the devil could have healed that baby from her Coma.

66 comments:

EDJ said...

First!!

EDJ said...

Lol @ the devil is capable of doing "good". The question then becomes "motive". Like in a court of law, if two people kill someone the difference in sentencing becomes malice/intent. Is one's intent more malicious than the other? I would argue that the devil's intent in "doing good" is malicious in some way.

Realist said...

NOT RUTH!!!! NOOOO!!! about the baby?...lol
I wish i was there i would have made such a scene

Azazel said...

Ah EdJ

U raise a good point @ motives..

But then u would argue that the devil's intent in 'doing good' is malicious in some way..

Thank u for making reference to a court of Law..
Because I would counter your argument by saying that all you know of the devil is provided to you by an account given by 'God'??
So how can u draw conclusions about the devil based on a hearsay testimony provided by his enemy 'God'?? U accuse him of malicious intent when u can only prove this from reading the bible, a book inpired by God..
I honestly doubt that a book written by the devil about God, would cast God in the 'best of lights'... So why then would u take the other person's account of the other person as 'True'?

Even in a court of law, such a testimony would be deemed heresay. U say the devil's intent is malicious in some way, but is it also not possible that God's intent is malicious also?

..Moyo said...

LOOOL!
RUTH DON DIE!
I was upset but you made me laugh!
I would have died laughing there! I can imagine the shock. "ey make we dey go na" you now enter then "ehn na so we leave house con come here and ruth die Jesus *sign of the cross" haha :P

And once again Azazel, you make a Christian wanna turn Atheist! Sigh.
Well I think you're right. Very right. You have said it in a way that I can't add any other thing except I want to start what I can't finish.
Love this.
And that picture.. stupid fat rabbits. they are rabbits abi? :P

sweetness said...

Lol
Ruth don die
Na Azazel kill am lol

that pic, lol what a shame

TayneMent said...

LMAO @ Ruth don die that cracked me up.

EDJ said...

Lol are you trying to say that the devil is just "mis-understood"?. I thought the whole point of God being God and the devil being the devil is that one is good and one is bad.

You are right that in a court of law some of the stories of Satan would be construed as hearsay, but we only have one account. If you find the devil's version of certain bible events then I'd be interested to hear it.

The Messiah said...

Haha Ruth Don Die!!! Ah Miracles...

First of all, think about what a miracle is. A miracle is simply an event that has a very slim chance of occurrence (almost nearly impossible).

In high school, I had a very intriguing moment at lunch break. It was me, Ernesto, Ricardo and some other Mexicans playing texas hold 'em poker off campus. On this particular hand dealt I received a pair of 2's and for some dumb reason I went all in (regardless of the fact the 2's are the least ranked cards in the game and my chances of winning were approximately zero). Unfortunately for me, Ernesto called my bluff. He had 2 Aces (the highest ranked in the game). However, with the shitty hands I had, I still had a chance if the flop and river cards were in my favor. The first three cards were laid: a king, a ten, and an ace. This made it triple aces for Ernesto, and that spelled doom for my chances. Then the next card: a 2. But still an ace triplet kills a trips of 2 any day. And then the miracle happened. The last card was a 2 of diamonds, making my hand a four of a kind. Can u serious imagine? Imagine how happy I was compared to how disappointed the sure handed Erny was. As a poker player, that is a MIRACLE!!! So does that mean God put sugar in my garri? Or does it simply mean that this particular outcome was completely random (just like any other outcome that could have occurred)and somehow that random occurrence seemed to butter my bread? I seriously pick the latter.

Azazel said...

So EDJ does objectivity not mean anything to u?
So do u go throughout life believin only one account of things??
Am pretty sure u like balance, u hear from left and right?
Even when people bring their troubles to u, am sure u ask for both sides of the story.
Why then should the devil not get the same courtesy u apply to mere human beings? It's just common sense..
I never said the devil is misunderstood, it may very well turn out that he is the evil one and God is the good one.. But until we hear both sides of the story, it is imperative not to draw conclusions based on one account.. Afterall is that not what intelligent people are supposed to do?

Azazel said...

Moyo my intention is not to turn anybody atheist lol. I am just asking questions and reflecting lol..

Thanks sweetness.

Lol Taynement na so we see am lol, it was a truly lmbo moment.

True that Messiah, now in such a case one could argue whether it was a miracle or not.
But what about the one where there is no possible explanation, and I would counter my own statement by saying that just because there is no explanation does not mean an explanation does not exist. I am not closed to the fact that the baby comin out of the coma, could have another explanation..
Am just saying, what happens when the 'explanation' is then a real miracle? Will we accept it?

Aradi said...

Ah, Azazel I had the intention of posting a reply to your other miracle post but I think the devil made me forget.

A miracle is, to me, not always something that happens extra-ordinary without any logical explanation. A miracle may well be something we can all explain; trace the causes and effects. However the timing of such an event, plus the possibility of the events occuring in the way they did make them miracles. In that effect, they could almost always be explained scientifically. I believe the story of the Arab/Mexican is an example of a miracle, just because you can explain what happened doesn't make it less so. Likewise, Muslims believe the Qur'an is a miracle. Everyone could say some teachings and have them written down, but for an illiterate man to recite 114 chapters of verses so full of meaning and rythm that people who were very gifted at the arts couldn't match with the pen is a miracle.

And to possibilities that the devil could do good. I know of two accounts off the top of my head. Each of them involved the devil trying to harm people at first but when he fails, he tells them something good. One concerns a companion of the Prophet who was sharing out charity, and one man tried to take a share that was not his. The companion prevented him several times and when the man gave up, he told him to recite Ayat'al Kursiyy (Verse of the Throne) before he goes to bed every night and an angel would guard him. When he told the Prophet, he said "What he said is true, even though the one who said it to you is a liar. He is Satan." The other story is a bit similar to this.

Likewise, we believe fortune tellers, magicians, soothsayers and other seemingly gifted people get their skills and knowledge from the devils. The angels discuss truths from the heavens, and the devils eavesdrop on them. And then the devils give this information to men but they add a hundred lies to it. The men would also add their own lies when relaying it, and thus they would tell you the truth, but fool you with several other lies as well.

That's my take. As to God doing bad, that's a dangerous territory to go into but seeing as you got that information by reading a completely different scripture and adding your own interpretations unto it, I will not go there.

SOLOMONSYDELLE said...

Azazel? Azazel? Azazel? How many times did I call you? Oya, head on over to my Easier blog to read about yourself... Yeah, that's right. I even called you a heathen. Even though you named yourself after some sort of evil spawn, you don't scare me. Oya, go ...

EDJ said...

Like I said Azazel, if you find the devil's side of the story as told by one of his disciples, I would like to see it.

BUT...till then we only have one account of events, and based on that the devil would be found guilty of doing a good deed for malicious purposes.

Assuming this bible story is true and since it is Lent:
When Jesus was in the desert and the devil came to him and told him he would make him ruler of everything wasn't that a "good deed"? But why was the devil doing it?
You're right we only have Jesus' side of the story, but how would the devil explain away that one? I ask you since you are now quite literally playing "devil's advocate". We should have a mock trial sef!

Azazel said...

@ You're right we only have Jesus' side of the story, but how would the devil explain away that one? I ask you since you are now quite literally playing "devil's advocate". We should have a mock trial sef!

Yes we should totally have a mock triall, because lets look @ it.
U ask how the devil would have defended himself from that? What about he says that the whole thing never took place in the first place??
Come on now EDJ, as u said we only have one account and based on that account the devil is guilty... But remember even here on earth, a man is innocent until proven guilty.

That same ideal should apply to the devil as well.

SOLOMON
Lol I hustled there sharply, but ehn I am a heathen in the lord lol

Azazel said...

@
Likewise, we believe fortune tellers, magicians, soothsayers and other seemingly gifted people get their skills and knowledge from the devils. The angels discuss truths from the heavens, and the devils eavesdrop on them.

Lol emphasis on 'believe' Aradi..
Am sure u sort of understood this post, but when u say that 'Entering the God doing bad territory is dangerous' puzzles me greatly.
So I should not 'investigate' or use my brain to think because it is dangerous?? come on now brah

EDJ said...

Lmao, I just imagined the devil reading this conversation!

Well if the devil says that never happened then its now a case of he said, he said. So what next?

Myne Whitman said...

Azazel, didn't know you got jokes like this. lol...ruth don die! LWKMD

El-Divine said...

i was reading the comments and was like "the devil should come out with his own version sef so we cn put this all to rest." think abt it...a philosophers greatest weakness is his curiousity. the problem with hearin only the God-side of the story is that our anaytical, reason and logic minds will always try to figure out wt the devil thinks of all the accusations heapd on him. since he doesnt say nothin, we imagine all kinds of possible scenaris and end up losing sense of wt to beleive as true or false. that is the inherent danger of a single story...so devil, or some person who has the inside track to him shuld start talkin..and soon.
the main post itself is interesting. if i c a man walkin on water, right in front of my eyes, knowing fully well it is logically impossible, of course i will accepts a miracle has happend.

Azazel said...

Exactly see now u are following my drift..
Now it's now upto a 'third' party to put all doubts aside..
U go to the lowest angel in heaven, and then ask him for the truth of the matter..
I say the 'lowest' because I can infer that both the Holy Spirit and Jesus the (supposed son) would be biased against the devil. And Neither would I call any of the devil's close associates as they to would be biased. So wisdom dictates that I go to someone who would probbaly be most likely to tell the truth..

Lol Myne I got jokes

@ Eldivine
knowing fully well it is logically impossible, of course i will accepts a miracle has happen

Didn't u see that magician dude on TV walk on water??? Most people thought it was real, until very much later they showed he was walking on a glass top..
I used to believe he was walking on water also until I watched a clip on youtube that explained it all..
The name of the guy is Criss Angel.

So El - Divine it is truly impossible to walk on water, but even when u see a person walking on water, that should not stop u from testin to see if u have not been fooled. Shey u get??

LucidLilith said...

jeez..lol.
So funny about the t-shirt.
i am still in fits of giggles.

Azazel said...

Lol Lily

2cute4u said...

hmm, na wa!You too much.you're too hilarious for your own good, you just can keep the conversation alive!
that said, everyone's added one bit or the other.. I've just written a post that really needs your attention.. it really does.. ' save our soul' please I humbly ask that you humour me. .blogspot.com
thank you ever so much..
www.askchacha4free

Aradi said...

You know fully well, Azazel, that there is a huge difference between investigation and making false statements. You can very well investigate, but as I've said in another post, something you do is not attempt to learn from people of much greater understanding that have written extensively on such topics. You limit your scope.

You think of God and Satan as you would of the mythical Zeus and Hades or a Hollywood-themed Good being vs Bad Being. God is the Eternal, All-Powerful Being. Satan is a Jinn created by God upon whom God gave a high status so that at one point he worshiped alongside the Mala'ikun (Angels). Unlike the Malaikun, the Jinn have free will, much like the humans. Satan used this to disobey God because of his pride towards Adam (Adam was a being made of clay, see, and Satan's made of smokeless flame; he reasoned that even his being was much superior to Adam's, which is very wrong from a practical perspective, and he also refused to accept the fact that Adam had knowledge that God taught him of which Satan knew not). God cursed him but he asked for permission to lead Adam and his offspring astray, he was granted this because God has the knowledge that only the lost shall follow him.

Satan in himself is not an all-powerful being. Several humans overpower him and shall continue to do so. His main method of persuasion is whispers, suggestion. He suggests and you take it as if it is your own thought. Thus the verses in Surat'al Nas (Chapter if Mankind); "Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of Mankind. The King of Mankind. The Lord of Mankind. From the evil of the sneaking whisperer. Who whispers in the heart of Mankind. Of the Jinn and of Mankind."

Satan has created nobody, he does not have such power. He only has a progeny among the Jinn we call the Shayaatin, who help him in his cause. The Jinn themselves could do good or bad. Whenever Satan whispers to men and they follow him, he immediately says "I am free of you! I fear Allah, Lord of the Aalamin (everything in existence)" and abandons him.

On the day of Judgement, when men shall be judged by Allah and granted their eternal abode, Satan shall tell them that he is, indeed the misleader. I don't have that specific verse with me right now, but I shall look for it.

So you see, the devil is nowhere near the nature of God. If God wills he could have his own scripture, but it shall be full of lies. We are not beings created by Satan, he is indeed our enemy. And those of us that take him as our allies shall be deserted by him the moment he takes us over, as he did to everyone before us.

"And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge and follows every rebellious devil." (Qur'an 22:3)

Azazel said...

@ atan in himself is not an all-powerful being. Several humans overpower him and shall continue to do so. His main method of persuasion is whispers, suggestion. He suggests and you take it as if it is your own thought. Thus the verses in Surat'al Nas (Chapter if Mankind); "Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of Mankind. The King of Mankind. The Lord of Mankind. From the evil of the sneaking whisperer. Who whispers in the heart of Mankind. Of the Jinn and of Mankind."

Satan has created nobody, he does not have such power. He only has a progeny among the Jinn we call the Shayaatin, who help him in his cause. The Jinn themselves could do good or bad. Whenever Satan whispers to men and they follow him, he immediately says "I am free of you! I fear Allah, Lord of the Aalamin (everything in existence)" and abandons him.

On the day of Judgement, when men shall be judged by Allah and granted their eternal abode, Satan shall tell them that he is, indeed the misleader. I don't have that specific verse with me right now, but I shall look for it.

So you see, the devil is nowhere near the nature of God. If God wills he could have his own scripture, but it shall be full of lies. We are not beings created by Satan, he is indeed our enemy. And those of us that take him as our allies shall be deserted by him the moment he takes us over, as he did to everyone before us.



Aradi please tell me bro, all these things u just told us about the devil. Who did u get ur account from? Am guessing from Allah who gave it to Mohammed? Shey u get??

Where is the devil's account? He might claim that he created God and God was the rebel not the other way round..
Just think about it, are u in habit of just taking one story and claiming it as truth? Come on now, everyother person who's commented has gotten my point

Aradi said...

I suspect the reason so many people jump on this line of thinking is because it is one of those shiny, solid arguments that look so credible until it crumbles upon the slightest scrutiny.

I mean, think about it; where is the devil's scripture? Like, where IS the devil's scripture?? If he is indeed this powerful being, where are his codes of conduct, his commandments, his message??

Where are his messengers, his apostles, and his disciples? Would a God stand at a side and succumb to whispers while men like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad champion the cause of the other side? Astaghfirullah, where is the logic in that?

The Qur'an and the Sunnah are enough for me. I do not intend to speculate on matters in which there has been written, literature by great scholars known throughout their lives to be men of integrity and character. Subhanallah, even wise men have gone astray because of speculation in their search of enlightenment. They looked in the wrong places.

There is even a Prophetic Saying about this kind of fallacious thinking. The Prophet said a person shall wonder who created so-and-so, and who created so-and-so, and he shall come to a stage where he shall wonder, 'and who created God?'Such musings are from Satan himself.

I have heard of people that indeed worship Satan and such codswallop. A very weird method of self-destruction if I've ever heard of one. So much more easier to follow one's nature and submit to the Lord of the Worlds, innit?

If there's one thing in the story of Satan and Adam to learn it is the fact that upon sinning, one tried to justify his pride and disobedience while the other immediately sought forgiveness and was given. We believe, on the Throne, written by the Al Qalam (The Pen), are the words of Allah "My Mercy is greater than my Wrath."

Formerly stealth reader said...

lmao @ el divine
inherent danger of the single story lmao


so if u need the devil to tell his side, you should find the devil, his book and his worshippers but then theres thw whole the devil is a liar thing! oh yes i forgot! we r trying to avoid the single story, only way is to get info from the horse's mouth. cheers.

Azazel said...

There is even a Prophetic Saying about this kind of fallacious thinking. The Prophet said a person shall wonder who created so-and-so, and who created so-and-so, and he shall come to a stage where he shall wonder, 'and who created God?'Such musings are from Satan himself.

I have heard of people that indeed worship Satan and such codswallop. A very weird method of self-destruction if I've ever heard of one. So much more easier to follow one's nature and submit to the Lord of the Worlds, innit?

If there's one thing in the story of Satan and Adam to learn it is the fact that upon sinning, one tried to justify his pride and disobedience while the other immediately sought forgiveness and was given. We believe, on the Throne, written by the Al Qalam (The Pen), are the words of Allah "My Mercy is greater than my Wrath."

So because I seek for two sides of a story, my musings must be from the devil??
Bro I thought u were an objective thinker? Seriously though? So my musings are from the devil? Lmao u are sounding like one of those fanatics out there, who accuse ppl of being possessed by the devil

Azazel said...

@ Formerly stealt
El Divine does have a point, i mean there is a danger inherent from a single story..

Moreover is the devil a liar because both u and I have verified it?? Or because God claimed that it is so?? I think the correct term should be the devil is supposedly a liar. or 'allegedly' a liar

The Girl with the Red Hair said...

Are we like waiting for the Devil's side of the story.

Seriously the idea of God is illogical but we just choose to believe. For me,I am skeptical about miracles and really most times do not believe all this our church miracles.

Sugarking said...

Azazel don come again! You and these ur gists sef!!!

Aradi said...

Azazel, have you ever heard of the saying "Hate the deed, not the person"? That's exactly what was meant by that hadeeth. Even strong, religious men have some devilish thoughts they'd rather they didn't, but we have supplications for that kind of thing.

Having a strong belief does not make me any less of a logical or free-thinker. In fact, you could say I'm rather independent, going against all the things that these social norms have set out for us. Remember, Azazel, a fanatic does not have to have a religion. I could just as well accuse you of atheistic fanaticism, so please refrain from saying that my thinking is, in a way, damaged. I only follow what makes sense to me.

If you're waiting for the devil to reveal something for you, that's your thing, but I advice you not to hold your breath. Exposing himself to you would only open your eyes to his false façade. No, that's not how he rolls.

All this is giving me an idea for a post, so I might develop it over the night or something.

I also have an article I think you might find interesting, but I'm not sure where's the proper place to post it, so I might e-mail it to you.

“Have you (O Muhammad) seen him who has taken as his ilaah (god) his own vain desire? Would you then be a Wakeel (a disposer of his affairs or a watcher) over him? Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are only like cattle nay, they are even farther astray from the Path (i.e. even worse than cattle)” [al-Furqaan 25:43-44]

That's the mentality of a fanatic of desire, whims, partial judgement. And remember that it is Man that has the potential to be higher in rank than the angels or lower than even the devils. At least the devil acknowledges that God is the Absolute.

muyiwa said...

hahaha,your last paragraph made me think of the way people blame bad things on devil everytime

Azazel said...

Nothing wrong with being skeptical @ Redhead..
But sometimes the evidence might be to overwhelming.

Aradi why would u accuse me of atheist fanaticism? When am not even atheist? U urself have declared ur affiliation, but u've never seen me declare any affiliation with any religion watsoever.

U say that the devil acknowledges that God is absolute, according to who???
According to God, the devil acknowledges him as absolute?
Aradi bro am sure u know/understand where am getting @..
My point is that, anything in the Koran or Bible that lamabsts the bible should be treated as 'heresay' from one ACCOUNT!!
So telling me what the koran says about the devil, is heresay? Did u understand this post @ all??
Because u keep on bringing verses from the Koran, like am suppose to hold it as true.
If we were in a courtroom, ur verses would not be worth anything. Bros as I said, some of the people who read this post understood what I was saying, so posting anymore koranic verses lets me know that u haven't understood the post.

Azazel said...

Exactly Muyiwa.
Exactly.

Azazel said...

@ Now most people would say, DUHHH!! attribute it to God of cause. But see I believe that if one would attribute it to God, one should maintain the possibility that it could be attributed to the devil as well.

I know somepeople are of the habit of believing that every good thing comes from God and every bad thing comes from the devil. But the bible itself puts rubbish to such a theory, afterall God did and has done bad things in the bible and if you need examples I shall gladly provide them. Now that I have ascertained that God is capable of doing good as well as bad, does it not stand to reason that Devil himself is capable of doing good as well as doing bad??

So then, as a rationale man I would say that the glory for a miracle should be split 50/50. Afterall it is a possibility that both God and the devil could have healed that baby from her Coma.

Aradi read this whole place again bro. So u can understand my point.

Because when u said 'the devil acknowledges that God is absolute' is that based on who's testimony???

Aradi said...

Azazel, you keep saying I didn't understand your post as if there is something too complex for my intellect in there. Believe me, I've read it. I have a fair concept of what you're presenting.

The main gist of it is that every scripture is written in the favour of The Creator and not of the Accursed. And that, as in a courtroom, the jury only rule when both parties have been properly represented by an attorney. Your point is that the devil has not been represented in this case. Hence, we should not believe in the party that has properly represented Himself.

I say the jury, the judge, the defendant and the plaintiff are all only in your head. You cannot say that you believe we all use the same judiciary system in our heads; each of us has a different case in his own head, and thus our realities.

I quote the Qur'an and you say the verses of the Qur'an or scriptures like the Bible mean little to you. The scripture you would like to see, is that of the devil. You have not even considered God's scripture!

"He stole my money, your honour!"

"Your words mean little to me, why should I take them as fact. You, Defendant, speak!"

"Er... he's not here, your honour."

"Didn't I tell you to keep quiet! We shall wait for him. Until then, let's speculate what he might say. This is a fair trial, rationally, we shall listen to the Defendant's side."

That there is a devil in the first place is a concept you got from the scriptures. Your musings did not reveal that to you, the scriptures did. Since the words of the scriptures carry little substance to you, you might as well dispute the concept of the devil altogether.

But no, I don't understand such simple trivialities because I quote the holy scripture and not the first thought that came out of my head.

The more we discuss, though, the more apparent it is that we look at these issues from different perspectives. I try to use my reasoning in my points, but you adhere to a completely different set of reasoning.

So I rest my case, I guess.

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Azazel said...

@
That there is a devil in the first place is a concept you got from the scriptures. Your musings did not reveal that to you, the scriptures did. Since the words of the scriptures carry little substance to you, you might as well dispute the concept of the devil altogether.

But no, I don't understand such simple trivialities because I quote the holy scripture and not the first thought that came out of my head.

The more we discuss, though, the more apparent it is that we look at these issues from different perspectives. I try to use my reasoning in my points, but you adhere to a completely different set of reasoning.


Ehen now u are talking, this is where I was expecting u to go since. The concept of the devil is something I got from the scriptures, meaning that it could be a lie or it could be true..
Then from there, one can also challenge or question about the concept of God

Kola Tubosun said...

Ha, man this cracked me up. I can imagine God and the Devil discussing over beer while that pastor prayed for the child:

"I think you'd have to take credit for this one, D," God snickers.
"You don't say," The devil replies, and he stretches his hand.

It will make a good story.

Aradi said...

Er.. what now?

You have a gift, Azazel. The uncanny ability to interpret anything the way it suits you. I don't know how you managed to take what I said to mean that you can dispute the concept of God altogether.

We have mentioned reasoning a lot in these posts so let me take us back to the basics to attempt to identify this reasoning:

S1: You don't believe in miracles
S2: You do, however, believe miracles could be attributed to the Devil.
(I'm lost right there, but let's get on, maybe we might see some consistency...)
S3: The Devil is portrayed in the Holy Scriptures in an unfavourable light.
S4: These -could- be fabrications against the accursed (for reasons that elude me).
S5: You would only believe these accounts when you here the Devil's version of events and he confirms it.
Right...
S6: You don't believe the Holy Scriptures.
S7: The Devil is a Qur'anic and Biblical character, so you would consider him to be fictional.
S8: On that same vein, God could also be fictional.

Well, let's discuss this line of... what? The statements arent over?

S9: On another thread, you have mentioned "[I] know there is a God.."

Now I'm just confused. Now, compare these to my line of reasoning.

S1:I believe in one Almighty God.
S2: The Prophet Muhammad preaches about the one Almighty God.
S3: Muhammad was a pure man of integrity.
S4: Muhammad's message has a very wide range of diverse teachings - all of them are good, logical, and benefit the follower.
S5: Muhammad's God, my God, says "The devil is your enemy".
S6: I took the devil as my enemy.

Now the teachings about evils and the devil go much deeper than that, as does my religion's Fiqh. Fiqh encompasses volumes of books, but we don't have to be familiar with all of them to look at these statements and consider who's being the more reasonable.

Azazel said...

Lol @ Kola.
It would have been an interesting discussion.

@ Aradi
When did I say that I do not believe in miracles? Aren't u assuming now?
When did i ever say that I know that there is a God aradi?
And even if i said it, is it not possible for a man's views to be refined??

Aradi said...

I hate this thing where I have to quote what someone has said before to make a point, still seems a bit to me like a betrayal of trust, but you are implying here that I am fabricating non-existent facts to prove a point - the lowest form of arguments used only by the enemies of knowledge. So here;

"We know that there is a creator, we know somebody must have created this things..
Our dissent comes from who has the correct interpretation of the 'creator's will/purpose'..."

And do you really want to make me go through all this bother back to your Mexican/Arab blog post? I concede, you did mention in this one (upon my re-reading of the post to be sure) the possibility of unexplainable miracles (I did say that I believe miracles could be perfectly explained scientifically), but then you go ahead and say whether they could be attributed to the devil. A point I reinforced by saying that in my religion, some of such occurrences do indeed come from the devils. While we're on the point, the Qur'an also recounts tales of hypocrites like the Pharoah (some say, Rhamsys III), of Moses' era who would whole-heartedly pray to God in private and when his wishes come true, attribute them to himself in public.

I don't know how I chose to digress. And now you mention that your views are 'refined'. I therefore knight thee Azazel of All Colours a la Saruman in the Fellowship of the Rings; you shall clad on yourself only those colours you see fit on occasion.

Refinement is understood, but if you change your stance every few days, I don't think it does your credibility any justice.

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