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Tuesday, June 15, 2010

Is Your Baby Going To Hell?

Ya know the Catholic church has debated about this before. They couldn't find anywhere in the Bible where babies who haven't accepted Christ in their life go. Well according to John 3:5, no man (or/and I guess child too) may enter heaven without being born again, of water and spirit. That's why the Catholics baptize babies, but the problem is the "born of the spirit" part. Since the Catholics knew it was impossible for that to happen, they proposed a place where babies go to when they die; purgatory. Purgatory is like a spiritual version of Earth, as in it's neither hell or heaven. But just as the story of Mary ascending into heaven, purgatory isn't written anywhere in the original holy book. With that being said, I'll discard the idea of purgatory, but purgatory does raise another question: If purgatory doesn't exist where do dead babies go? Heaven or Hell?

Well, it's a complex question with a simple answer; Hell. Some will argue that God wouldn't do that to the innocent little kids. Ha! Yes He would. According to the Bible which God supposedly wrote, He has a track record of doing such acts. Remember, back in Moses's time when the Israelites where still slaves under Pharaoh? God ordered Pharaoh to release His people instantly, but the strong head said "na lie, I no go do am." So God said "Ehhn? You go hear wein, you just watch." And indeed Pharaoh and his subjects heard serious wein. First, God took his anger on the innocent fish who had nothing to do with these fucking humans, by turning their water to blood and killing them. Secondly, He released frogs all over Egypt and then lice and gnats. One would think by now Pharaoh would have heard enough wein, but Pharaoh wanted to hear more. So God gave him flies (now if the Egyptians were smart they would have used the frogs for pest control), and then added diseases, incurable boils, even hail mixed with fire! Still Pharaoh no gree, so God gave him locusts and darkness. But since Pharaoh kept his head strong, God decided to go for the low blow; He decided to kill every first born male in every Egyptian family. So instead of God to go after the guilty strong head directly, He punishes the innocent to send an indirect message to the guilty, na wa oh. So when people say "God is great" as they blow up buildings and kill innocent lives to send a message, this is the God they got that logic from. But if God could punish those innocent sons of Egypt for a crime their leader committed, imagine what else He can do. As a matter of fact, there isn't that much imagination you need to have, after the fall of Adam, God decided to punish his kids (allegedly me and you) for something Adam did (sin). So because of Adam, we are supposedly already born in sin, and that's something God hates. However, the only to reverse that is to accept Christ, and since babies are too innocent and ignorant to wrap their brains around the concept of sin and repentance, then according those rules, these babies deserve hell. Now some of you may naively say, "God is too merciful for that." Niggas/bitches please, was He merciful to the innocent
Egyptian boys? No? Exactly.

You know what's funny; it's when people who get unwanted pregnancies just feel like the baby can go to hell. Well, according to the Christian beliefs, the baby does exactly that. Talk about be careful what you wish huh?

Anways, it's been nice sharing my thoughts with thee, now it's time to say ciao, bye in Italiano (My Italian has improved ever since I started listening to the Italian rapper, Fabri Fibra, who I'm currently listening to, y'all should check him out on youtube). So in that case, ciao ci verdiamo dopo.


Azazel said...

Lmao this is so fuve a tendency to spects true..
God really does have a tendency to place the crimes on babies..
Take the case of David the king of Israel..After he had Uriam the hubby of bathsheeba killed, God punished him by killing his innoncent baby and making the baby suffer for 7 days..
Hmm me thinks that babies are viewed as scapegoats by the Most High..

The Messiah said...

Not just babies, but even animals. He even forces unicorns to worship Him(Job 39:9) King James Version. Hahahah, a true character.

CerebrallyBusy said...

I dont think they would go to hell. God loves little children, He says 'let them come to me, dont stop them or forbid them, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven' (paraphrased) if the kingdom of Heaven is theirs, why would they go to hell??

*oh that was from Luke something verse something.

The Messiah said...

Little children doesn't equal babies. I was very specific to only mention babies, not little kids bcuz at a certain age kids know about sin and repentance. Im not talking about them.

Azazel said...

Surely Cerebrally Busy must know the difference between little kids and babies???

Enoch said...

Waiting for the followers of Christ(twitter anyone?) to come and point to that magical boundary -otherwise known as the new/old testament divide- that makes all these pesky little problems with their godhead go away.

They are in denial Like say dead babies dey go Abakaliki.

The alpha and omega. Beginning and the end. Ancient of days. Lion of the tribe of Judah. The baby burner.

EDJ said...

Well as a catholic, I say purgatory. You can say hell, but again this is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

I dont know what the argument is against purgatory. Should everybody be subject to the SAME "eternal torment" in hell even though their sins are of "varying" levels of wrong? I don't think so.

I will say what I always say. Everything is human interpretation.

Also God did not write the bible (excuse you). Human beings did and I have a feeling that--just like now--God may have been "assigned" responsibility for things that were not actually his/her doing.

El-Divine said...

mayne...this one go hard. im looking through my defense chest, and finding it hard coming up with a counter.
i shaa know that im no longer a baby, so i gatz focus on keeping myself out of hell, let babies worry for themselves. and for some reason a voice inside me is whispering "you have the obligation to remain silent cos anything you say on this blogpost will be used against u in the court of heaven." abeg, messiah, you too much

Azazel said...

I dont know what the argument is against purgatory. Should everybody be subject to the SAME "eternal torment" in hell even though their sins are of "varying" levels of wrong? I don't think so.

This has got to be one of the dumbest comments I've seen in my time..
First u ask, what is the argument against purgatory..
First argument against it, is that it's not in the bible anywhere. Nowhere in the bible is PURGATORY mentioned. Don't u think the almighty would have taken 5 seconds of his time to make that known? Afterall he made heaven and hell known.

Lol @ the abakiliki comment by ENoch..

EDJ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EDJ said...


"This has got to be one of the dumbest comments I've seen in my time.."

You are still young, mentally, so I'm gonna let that slide with this warning: I DO NOT GIVE A F*CK whether you think you are smarter than everyone who believes in religion. That is your opinion. It is not proven fact so, do not under any circumstances insult my intelligence. I believe in science and logic, but I am also open-minded enough to understand that there is a need for religion in this world.

"First argument against it, is that it's not in the bible anywhere. Nowhere in the bible is PURGATORY mentioned. Don't u think the almighty would have taken 5 seconds of his time to make that known? Afterall he made heaven and hell known."

There are many things the bible does not say anything about. E.g:

The bible says nothing about birth control and yet there are christians who say that using condoms is against God's will. The question then is, does God want these people to get HIV in his name? I am sure you can squeeze a whole blog post out of that topic.

Or let us consider the big issue of reproductive rights. There is no where in the bible that says, "thou shalt not kill a zygote once the sperm meets the egg" yet "pro-life" people say the bible is against abortion because the bible is against murder. Then what is murder? Is a 3week embryo the same as a full grown person?

Or let us consider disease. The bible says if you pray God will help you. It never said when you are sick the best thing to do is sit at home and pray instead of going to the hospital. Yet, people do that all the time and die as a result. Is God responsible for that?

My point is, the bible is not the end all be all of Christianity and human thought. It is open to interpretation because it was written by humans for humans. There are other Christians who will disagree with me, but this is a simple fact of life. The bible raises a lot of questions, I have no argument. But, in an attempt to answer these questions, different branches of Christianity have come up with different "solutions". For Catholics, one of these "solutions" is purgatory.

All of you bashing Christianity do so with the view of the religion being "absolute". Either God sends people to heaven or hell (no purgatory). Either God hates all non born again babies and burns them or he loves all babies regardless of born again status and sends them to heaven. Either God mentions it in the bible otherwise it doesn't exist.

YOU are missing the point. First God did not write the bible. Second, the parts of the bible where God "spoke" are very clear and concise e.g. 10 Commandments. The parts that raise confusion are the parts written by "human interpretation". (which is a lot of parts of the bible). Think about it.

Your problem is not with God. It is with the human beings claiming to serve him.

Azazel said...

U said that 'purgatory' must exist because
@ Should everybody be subject to the SAME "eternal torment" in hell even though their sins are of "varying" levels of wrong? I don't think so.

So u are applying your logic to your faith??
I don't understand, so because u THINK people should be punished according to their VARYING LEVELS OF WRONG u draw the ultimate conclusion that purgatory must exist??

Even though not even a hint of it was mentioned in the bible??
U claim that I have a problem with human claims about the bible, yet u are doing the exact same thing. U say 'purgatory' exists because u think varying levels of wrong deserve different places of punishment.
U don't KNOW this to be true..

LucidLilith said...

Catholicism is one complex denomination. One post/comment does not even begin to cover this topic of heaven and hell. Una don come again

Do babies go to hell? No. Since the church teaches us that we inherit the sins of Adam and Eve, we tend to baptize babies to get rid of this "sin" we have no control over. IMO, I don't think it is the actual sin we inherited. I think it is the tendency to sin we inherited.

EDJ said...

@Azazel. My point here is not to prove to you that purgatory exists, but to share one of the reasons why I believe it does.

I know purgatory isn't mentioned in the bible but, like I said, the bible raises many questions and every branch of christianity/christian has come up with various ways to answer them. I am not God so it is not my decision where people go after they die.

I believe people deserve varying levels of punishment for varying levels of sin because that would be the "just" thing to do. It would not be fair for a baby to suffer the same punishment as a serial killer.

The same bible that people love to throw in the faces of Catholics makes reference to "lesser" and "greater" sins. So, Catholicism preaches "lesser" and "greater" punishments. Please check up on Mortal and Venial sins as explained in Catholicism and the logic behind that differentiation.

Again, I believe in purgatory. It isn't in the bible but then neither are a lot of things. Nobody else has to join me in this belief.

Azazel said...

I believe people deserve varying levels of punishment for varying levels of sin because that would be the "just" thing to do. It would not be fair for a baby to suffer the same punishment as a serial killer.

Emphasis on I BELIEVE.. but u don't KNOW.
Now as to the baby suffering the same fate as a serial killer, lets examine that preposition..
David killed Uriam husband of Bathshebaa, the law at the time stated that if u murdered a man, your own life would be forfeit..
Who paid for David's crime?? A BABY...

U say that 'that would be the JUST thing to do'.
Just according to who's standards ?? Ur's or the almighty??
Aren't u the one who continually states that God's ways are not the ways of man??
Or maybe u meant to say his ways are ways of women right??
So u believe that purgatory exists because under ur notions of what is 'just' and not 'just' such a place needs to exist..
But then again it's an opinion.

U say that the bible makes mention of lesser and greater sins but the same bible also clearly states that the WAGES OF SIN is DEATH..
Now did it say the WAGES OF GREATER SINS?? OR did it say the WAGES OF LESSER SINS?? NOpe..
Clearly it states WAGES OF SINS so forgive me if I assume that the 'sins' in that phrase applies to every possible sin in the world..

Realist said...

Sucks to be a baby

宇軒蕙帆 said...

No pains, no gains...................................................................

The Messiah said...

Haha interesting discussions

@EDJ, you claim that the Bible has nothing on birth control and etc. That is a very flawed argument. Birth control came centuries after, but can the same be said about the idea of purgatory be? Birth control was a human invention, purgatory (well at least according to your beliefs) isn't. What excuse would the writers of the Bible (who were inspired by God) have for not including that vital piece of the puzzle? It certainly can't be the same excuse as why birth control isn't in the Bible. So don't compare the two. And btw, remember that parable by Jesus about the narrow road and the wide road? Abeg tell me, which road is the one to purgatory?

Secondly, you claim we are missing the point. Lemme get this straight, I use the Bible as my direct source for my thesis, and I'm missing the point? If I said something like, "God loves us?" and get sources from the Bible like I did with this post, would you say I'm missing the point? Obviously, you're not the type to call a spade a spade, you cherry-pick what you want from the Bible and dismiss the rest. You believe what you want to believe, even regardless of the how illogical the belief is. And sincerely, that's absolutely fine. I know kids who believe in tooth-fairies, but my point is don't try to use logic to explain nonsense. It's like mathematically proving how 12+5=5000

Enoch said...

@Messiah @EDJ
There's the distinct possibility that God, in his infinite wisdom, forged purgatory a few moments before papal pronouncements of its existence. After which, of course, he told the pope about it.

There's also the possibility that there's no purgatory, but at the end of these blog post, EDJ would win God over with her beliefs and he'll make one.

Or perhaps, there's a purgatory, but it goes by a different name. "Abakaliki" perhaps?

I honestly don't see the purpose of discussing things that can never be verified.

Realist said...

we are in purgatory. We are angels who have wronged God, we are paying for our trespasses

Azazel said...

Exactly @ Messiah..
I couldn't have typed my comment any better.