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Tuesday, June 8, 2010

CAN GOD LIE???





Before I start, THANKS A WHOLE LOT TO THOSE WHO VOTED FOR THIS BLOG @ the Nigerian Blog Awards.. On behalf of all the contributors on this blog, I say 'oshe'(Thank You)

The title of this blogpost probably made a lot of you cringe and internally say 'NO GOD CANNOT LIE'. I hope to examine that common belief that 'man is always wrong, and God is always right'. How many times have men of God told us that God told them to do something, and what they ended up doing became a failure or what God told them to do did not apply to our good senses? 
Take Chris Okotie, a pastor in Nigeria, during the last presidential election did he not state publicly that God wanted him to run for public office?? Now if God said he should run for public office, how come God did not ensure that he won the election? So did God lie or did Chris Okotie lie? Most of you are inclined to state that Chris Okotie lied, but why is that? 
Personally as I've stated time and time again, I do not think that God is infallible. I have no problem believing that if there was a God, he would be capable of lying. 
I remember when the pastor of the church I use to go to stated that God told him to open up a saturday night service at his church, and the whole congregation hailed him and everybody was happy. Six months later, he came back and said that the Saturday night service thing was not working out so he had decided to stop doing it. Now remember that 6 months earlier, God had supposedly given him the green light to go ahead with the service, so why would God give him the green light to go ahead with something that would end up as a failure??
Which brings us to my question again, who lied in this case? God?? or the pastor??


My favorite philosopher Thomas Paine once said "That God cannot lie, is no advantage to your argument, because it is no proof that priests can not, or that the Bible does not."

But then even that quote makes no sense to me, because if priests can lie? and the bible can lie? Why then do we even believe there's a God? Afterall we came to know about God and his characteristics through his prophets and through his 'bible'. So if the priests and the bible can be liars, then is it not possible that the idea of a single God could be a lie?

I just came off this 'heated' debate with Juiceegaal on twitter, ok ok it really wasn't that heated but basically juiceegaal was of the opinion that 'Asking questions is a good thing' and I agreed with her totally but I just had to do a little probing. Sometimes people think that the 'questioning' part should only be relegated to opinions or ideas not to people's personal lives as well. But I believe that the 'questioning' extends to every fiber of our human existence, I am perfectly fine if somebody asks you How many people you've slept with? Do you sleep naked at night? Have you smoked weed? etc, questions should not be relegated only to opinions or ideas that need to be challenged. They can extend into your personal life as well in my opinion and unless you have something to hide, you should not cringe when somebody probes into your life that deeply especially if your somebody who champions the 'need to ask questions'. 

James Allen once said "The man or woman who cannot endure to have their errors or shortcomings brought to the surface and made known, but tries to hide them, is unfit to walk the highway of truth..

If you can't bear to have aspects of your life questioned with respect, then you can like to get off the "highway of truth".

20 comments:

honey91 said...

I think ure question goes round and round.
Priests lie, they re human...the bible was also written by people. So if the bible lies then there's a chance that God doesn't exist and that God is probably one of the lies...
If thats the case, there really isnt any God who can or cant lie.

So maybe your question is 'does God exist'.

Azazel said...

No I don't want to tackle the 'Does God exist question'..
My question remains Can God lie?

LucidLilith said...

Azazel don come again! LOL.

I don't it is whether or not God lies but whether or not man uses the name of God to their advantage. God has never personally spoken to me so I can't say for sure he/she has lied. But when good things happen to me, I take it that he/she is fulfilling promises that I would have a good life. When bad things happen, I take it that it happened for a reason (...reasons which I most times don't know but still get really pissed about).

honey91 said...

So we are assuming God exists. Can we also assume that the bible does not lie?
cus whether He lies or not depends on which God you're looking at.
The God of the bible,according to the bible, does not lie. Ofcourse He can lie since He can do all things, but He doesnt. And that should answer your question...right?

honey91 said...

Correct that. God actually is incapacle of lying. Hebrews 6:18

Azazel said...

Lol @ lily..
God hasn't spoken to u personally, how come though? He has spoken to your friends am sure, why hasn't he spoken to u?

@ Honey91
We are not assuming that God exists, and we are not assuming that he does exists..
In this particular vein, we are simply asking If there is a God, is he capable of lying??

Hebrew 6:18
18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us

So the verse says that it is impossible for God to lie..

Permit me to present evidence to the contrary.

In Genesis when God was telling Adam and Eve about the tree they should not eat from..

In regard to the forbidden fruit God said: "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen. 2:17) God's statement proved untrue.
Did they die?Nope..
Adam lived to be 930 years old, so @ honey91 your hebrew verse says that it is impossible for God to lie. But I have presented evidence that it is certainly possible for God to lie.

honey91 said...

Well bible scholars claim that God's original plan was for man to live forever (I haven't seen that in the bible yet, then again I haven't read the whole bible). Since Adam eventually died, regardless of whether he lived long or not, if there is a God, He did not lie in that chapter.

Enoch said...

@Azazel
It appears you haven't met some sophisticated God apologists. In my day, I have met a good deal of them and they'll counter Genesis 2:17 with 2 Peter 3:8 "...With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness."

And they'll sprinkle in some technicalities like honey91: The bible might have been inspired by God but was written by man, blame the imperfections of man for all the errors therein.

Nice post

Azazel said...

@ Honey91
Now I assume ur saying that God said they would die but not immediately..
So ur assuming that God created us to be IMMORTAL..
Now if God created us to be immortal, why place a 2nd tree in the garden which was the TREE OF LIFE'??
What purpose does a TREE OF LIFE serve among immortals?
And if truly we were immortal, why kick us out of the garden for fear that we would reach out and eat from the tree of life??

honey91 said...

First, God said they would die, He didn't say whether it'll be immediate or not.I didn't say it oh

Second, Isaiah 55:9 says that His ways are not our ways so it wouldn't be possible to fully understand why He chose to put a 'Tree of Life' when Adam and Eve were immortal- although I've been told it was supposed to be a temptation for them. who knows?

third, how does the presence of the 'tree of life' prove that God lies? It simply proves that He works in mysterious ways abi?

Azazel said...

@ Enoch
Exactly o, so a perfect God inspired imperfect men to perfection?? Yet what they wrote was still imperfect??
This kind technicality they make person take tylenol

Myne Whitman said...

Can God lie, remains to be 'seen' but as far as I know now, He hasn't lied to me sha. Do people lie in His name? Absolutely!

And yeah I agree that questions should not be limited. Nice write-up and congrats again on your award.

The Messiah said...

@Enoch, I think its hilarious that they make that "1 day = 1000 years" argument, maybe they skipped Gen 1:5, where it distinctively describes light (as in sun is shining) as day, and darkness as night.

@this post, well we all should know the answer to this; yes. This is like asking if Santa Claus is generous. Now some claim the Bible is God's word, and if that is true, then He is beyond a liar, He's confused. It's this same God that claims to be omniscient, but in Gen 3:22 He exclaims, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it?" (NLT) Now why would an omniscient being ask "what if?" Isn't "what if" a question for those who do not know how the future would unfold? Yet this same God claims to know the beginning from the end. Definition of Fuckerey!

Azazel said...

Lol Myne how would u know if God has lied to u or not??
How do u separate your own desires from his own will??

El-Divine said...

Hahaha...i like the question. Maybe God can, maybe he cant. Its not my place to say.
All the same, if he cant lie at least theres evidence that he shaa can sponsor some liars. when one king like that in israel wanted to go to war, God sent lying spirits to his prophets cos he wanted him to die in battle. Its in the bible, so there..thats guilty by participation on Gods part.
Azazel, u raised some very simple questions in this post that has me thinkin. I might do a post when i find some answers. Great job..!

Azazel said...

Wow @ this comment
@this post, well we all should know the answer to this; yes. This is like asking if Santa Claus is generous. Now some claim the Bible is God's word, and if that is true, then He is beyond a liar, He's confused. It's this same God that claims to be omniscient, but in Gen 3:22 He exclaims, "Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it?" (NLT) Now why would an omniscient being ask "what if?" Isn't "what if" a question for those who do not know how the future would unfold? Yet this same God claims to know the beginning from the end. Definition of Fuckerey!

DEEP!!!!

@ Eke
Thanks for reminding me about the lying spirits also

Realist said...

If there is a God, then he can not lie. Why would he lie? He made everything, if something is going to contradict him, he can just make it not happen. If there is a God, then it is humans that are lying or misunderstanding. God could have told Chris Okotie to run for President. Okotie did not say God told him he would win. His running alone could have fulfilled whatever purpose God wanted. Your pastor could have heard from God to open the service, he did not say that God said the service will be a success. The extra offering for 6 months or the extra souls saved or cgurch could have stopped someone from ruining their life on a saturday night... we never know. Or both men could have lied. "If there is a God"

beautiful said...

"God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent"

In regard to the forbidden fruit God said: "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Gen. 2:17) - as for this, yes they died a spiritual death and that was how they knew they were naked. from then henceforth, they had to physically toil and suffer, that my dear is death. just cos they didn't fall down and kpai doesn't mean that they didn't die, k?

What purpose does a TREE OF LIFE serve among immortals? - as for this, the purpose of the "TREE OF LIFE", it was the tree of knowledge, that gave knowledge between good and evil. where in your bible did God say he created man to be immortal???

there is a very thin line between asking deep questions and blasphemy. just know the difference.

nice write up. kudos!

Azazel said...

The Devil can tell the truth
Evidence 1 - In regard to the forbidden fruit God said:"In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."(Gen. 2:17) EMPHASIS on IN THE DAY!!!
But the serpent said, "Ye shall not surely die." (3:4)
Satan's statement proved true,Adam lived to be 930 yrs old.
God's statement proved untrue.

So according to the bible, Devil told them the truth, and God told them the lie.

God tells adam/eve that they will die on the DAY that they eat from the tree.
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

The day they ate from it, they did not die. Adam lived to be 930 years old..
Soo???

@ beautiful..
If asking questions or seeking truth is blasphemy, so be it.

Sugarking said...

Chai, I like the way this guy dey reason sha. Nice post again bruv!